Canoe Considerations

[Eledhwen]

I've used aluminum and fiberglass canoes, never plastic...those weren't around much when I was young. Wood canoes, but never a fabric and wood canoe. It is that last one I am looking into most deeply. They turn out light, but strong, but of course are not as robust as the harder items. I hear one can even use kevlar for the fabric..although it is outrageously expensive.

Hmm. Well, I'd be carrying a Flotation Device anyway...basic safety, and I can swim very well. You might try a PVC tube for your bow and sword, that might work. Since I don't bring swords (they are illegal here), and my bows tend to be well treated with oils or polyurethane, I usually just have them in a water resistant sleeve inside a bow sock when I am on or around the water.

Painting that plastic...hmm. I'd say rough it up with sandpaper and apply some kind of epoxy over that before painting but not having done it, I have no idea if it would work. Others here might can help with that. The color bit is another reason I am planning on having a go at building.

I am going to use sawhorses to support a simple strongback and the forms that go on it. After watching a lot of videos on the subject, it looks workable and rather inexpensive so far as I can tell. Eventually, with better space and time, I'll build a wood canoe someday. I have full plans for various types coming in, am learning how to draft up my own canoe plans, and generally starting to gather materials a bit at a time. It looks like I will have to build it outdoors and cover it with a heavy tarp for the nights and when not working on it. I reckon it was done outdoors long before folk began building them indoors. Here's hoping I can manage it.

I will post the build once I get going on it so folk can learn from my mistakes...and if I succeed, that too.

Eledhwen

[Peter Remling]

Fine sandpaper will scuff it up enough for paint to adhere. I suggest you use a PVC tube that is larger than needed, this will allow more air in so the tube will be more buoyant so your bow won't sink if it goes overboard.

[Greg]

Start your paintjob on the PVC tube with white (or black) Krylon Fusion spraypaint. Adheres to plastic, and makes for a good primer for whatever paint you'd like to follow it up with. Unless, of course, you find a color of Krylon Fusion that you like to begin with. Just remember to clearcoat...no spraypaint can take much of a beating before chipping starts.

[RikJohnson]

As far as the Coleman canoe goes, apparently it's no longer made. There are a few on Ebay at the moment starting at about $150 and going up to about $ 400.

I've owned three Coleman canoes (Plastic).
My first is the only one I still own because it is a very strong craft that was well-made. I found it for $50 in a thrist store.
After that, Coleman made them thinner, so thin they had to run a pipe down the center to keep it in shape.
After that, they made them from something I cannot identify but they covered the craft with thin vinyl.
Basically, Coleman cut so many corners that they now makie really crappy boats.

I keep my old Coleman Ram-16 only because it is such a great craft BUT it is so big and heavy I cannot paddle it solo.

So I found, on Craigslist, an Old Town 12' Pack Canoe for $200 which is great for solo trips. I did a week out of mine on the Colorado and intend to do 2 weeks on the Green out of that boat.

The down side is that they are both green so blend in with the water anbd are almost invisible to the speedboats. If I could find decent paint, I'd consider painting them wood-like mto be more period.

[Eledhwen]

The book 'Building the Maine Guide Canoe' by Jerry Stelmok arrived this morning.

Drafting the plans up to proper size, deciding on length and beam, hull shape, and whether I want to rig it so it can accept a small sail at need, or oarlocks if I so choose, are all things that will happen after I have the plans scaled up and ready to rock.

Wood and canvas. I have learned many things preparing for this...among them that the Eastern Coastal Native American tribes, notably the Mi'kmaq, built oceangoing canoes, and after running into the Europeans, rigged them to take simple sails. I never knew that before. They also built skiffs...flat bottom boats with sharp stem and stern. I am utterly fascinated.

Yes, the impulse to 'build and design in' some Elven influence has already happened.

Riverine Rangers!

Eledhwen

[Greg]

]

So I found, on Craigslist, an Old Town 12' Pack Canoe for $200 which is great for solo trips. I did a week out of mine on the Colorado and intend to do 2 weeks on the Green out of that boat

Old Town has a 12' pack? I thought the pack model was 9'...

I loved my old pack. Wish I had another.

[RikJohnson]

Old Town has a 12' pack? I thought the pack model was 9'...
I loved my old pack. Wish I had another.

I had been looking for a 12' solo canoe for some time for a 2 week trip down the Green River in utah.
Finally found a girl moving to Florida and selling hers for $200. Missing one thwart, no paddles.
I can make paddles put prefer kayak paddles for a canoe so made a replacement thwart and....

I have been thinking of Rangine along the water, maybe Roosevelt lake or apache lake....

... keeping my sensitive Ranger gear dry in a Period fashion is the problem.

[Eledhwen]

Oilcloth. Probably the most 'period accurate' method. You could also use modern style containers but disguise them a cargo bundles or barrels. One of my Muzzleloader mags had an article on making coolers and such look like cargo bales. Something along that line, perhaps.

Eledhwen

[Greg]

Talk to jBook about oilcloth; he's a sutler, and has great stuff.

[RikJohnson]

http://tucson.craigslist.org/boa/4988214451.html

Here it is, the PERFECT canoe for ranging!!!

[Eledhwen]

Sea ranging...the Northeastern coastal tribes used really big bark canoes with sails, after seeing European ships. Oars too.

Me, I figure a good solo wood and canvas will do for river work. Easy to hide, easy to portage. Portage is a huge consideration. Gotta carry that thing around falls and whatnot, after all. At most a two-person rig. Likely I will build both sorts.

Eledhwen

[herbcraft]

hey wow! I'm not posting about plants...

I've been canoeing since I was a wee one, and am rather rabid about it. I can't get into canoe building (though there's a guy here in Michigan who makes incredible birch bark canoes: http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index ... ic_bi.html)

but if you're looking for a canoe that's going to keep you afloat on the water, there are a lot of considerations.

Most cheap, durable canoes are gonna weigh 70-90 pounds for a tandem canoe. I have an old town that weighs as much as an aluminum gruman. It's a tank, plastic/foam/plastic and unsinkable, but man... freakin heavy.

Fiberglass and canvas, or "1 layer" canoes are great for lakes and east rivers, but on the northern forest canoe trail? It might depend on which stretch. Just be sure that it can take the conditions you're putting it into, because wilderness canoeing requires a canoe that 's for for the wilderness. Pretty sure I remember that a 16 foot canvas/wood canoe was in the 65 pound range.

The next more durable lighter canoe material is royalex, but that's gonna cost more. A tandem canoe will maybe be closer to 60 pounds.

Kevlar is awesome (around 45 pounds), but lots more expensive. They also make carbon fiber (a little stuffer and more expensive than fiberglass). Most wilderness canoe outfitters (say in boundary waters) offer kevlar canoes, and some sell off a portion of their canoes at better prices each fall.

I saved up for several years and bought a refurbished Souris River Quetico (kevlar), and it's freakin' awesome. It was damaged and repaired, and I saved about $1000 on it. I sometimes see queticos for sale used, and if ever that was an option (and even used ones are gonna be pricey compared to coleman or old town) you wouldn't be disappointed.

you also want to consider how the canoe fits the water you're putting it in. A wide, flat short canoe is great for fishing in calm lakes, would be a bear to maneuver in lakes and would be potential dangerous in rough lake or sea water. Basically, for calm lakes a flat bottom is great, for rivers and some lakes, a slightly rounded hull, and for big lakes and sea canoeing, a very rounded hull that can take waves. the degree to which the front and back of the canoe lift up is called rocker. Canoes that ave little to no rocker are faster, but less responsive. medium rocker is great for rivers, and heavily rockered canoes are very responsive to turns. These are considerations you'd want to ponder if you choose to make something, too.

Paddling.net has a lot of really great info to look into.

[Ringulf]

Herbcraft,
Is there still someone up in your neck of the woods who builds traditional Fearings? I knew of one gentleman back in my Woodenboat days but have not been able to find him again.

[herbcraft]

there might be, but no one I know. I'd love one if I did more lake paddling, but I mostly frequent rivers, and they're more narrow and windy where I put in.

I've hung out with Jim Miller while he was making a birchbark canoe, and it was amazing. he said they're very sturdy, and that he's even bottomed out on rocks with his with no damage. But then, he had the most amazing birch bark; from one gunwale to the other with not a single eye, and easily 3x as thick as any birchbark I've ever seen downstate. It was glorious.

but then, he's made several, and worked out the kinks and developed some nuance. I've been out on rivers in the national forests here for 10 days, and it's suck to have a canoe that couldn't handle the elements.

[Eledhwen]

I am after building my own, at this stage almost certainly fabric on frame. It will be solo, to start with. I am fortunate to have a good deal of suitable material already, so it won't cost me as much as it could. Still more expensive than a used canoe, but it will be what I want and how I want it.

Importantly, I will be able to portage it far more easily. It has been many long years since I portaged canoes...and I am a lot older, so 70 pounds is right out. I used to hump that much and a lot more when I was young and rambling around the mountains and hills. These days my backpack tends to weigh in the 30-35 pound area for modern stuff, and considerably lighter in any kind of Ranger kit, as I go minimalist whenever possible.

At the moment I am still researching a fair number of things, getting suggestions and guidance from canoe builders, and preparing myself to begin. It will be a slow process...since I tend to be careful and meticulous when beginning something new, and I will be using only hand tools...no power tools at all. Also, I will be making snowshoes for the coming Winter and some biathlons I hope to participate in. On top of all of that, I am still making arrows for folk, building two bows, and making clothing and leather items. So yeah, the canoe will be a relatively slow process. I am, happily, getting some solid encouragement and guidance. Woot!

Eledhwen