English Longbow vs Magyar Horsebow - question

[Ennelyn]

I have a random question that I can't find an answer to elsewhere on the web, so I thought I'd turn to the people here to see if it can be answered.
I have an English Longbow that was custom made for me, with my short statue and draw length in mind. (I am 5'0" tall, with a measured draw length of 24") It is 41 lbs at 25", and 61" long, but I noticed that it feels a LOT heavier than 40lbs, and I am unable to draw it fully. On other types of bows, mostly the horsebow I own, 40lbs is nothing, I can draw my 70lb horsebow as far as I can my longbow, which is around 22".
My question is, is the stiffness of the longbow a common feature in longbows? I had two others before this one, and I noticed with those that I couldn't draw them as far as I should. I have a Magyar horsebow, 40lbs at 28" and I am using normal 28" arrows, and drawing them even past the draw length I had measured for myself, drawing it a good 4" further than the longbow. I haven't touched my longbow much since I got the horsebow, because its so much easier to use, but I WANT to love the longbow like I used to. I am wondering if the fact that it was made to 25" instead of the normal 28" has something to do with the extra stiffness, or the shorter length, since most english longbows are 72", and mine is just over 60"? Since the longbow only had about 6 months use, might it be that the stiffness will fade over time? I am tempted to buy another longbow, only in the normal drawlength of 28" and normal height for a longbow, but I don't want to spend the money if I will just encounter the same problem in the new bow. (I have used 6ft longbows before, and though I may look ridiculous shooting it, I have no trouble doing so)
I hope someone can give me an answer, because I am stumped on this!

[Peter Remling]

Short answer yes ! I have several recurves and a Mongol Horsebow (deflex/reflex) and two longbows. The longbows do feel stiffer. Longbows don't flex the same way as recurved bows of the same draw weight.

[Eledhwen]

Yes. That being said, stiffness is also a function of length so the shorter the bow, the stiffer it tends to be, just as with arrows. Longbows also stack pretty fiercely in their shorter incarnations. Horsebows, of which the Magyar is one (I have one too), are far more resilient, but they are deeply recurved and composite in nature. They tend to pinch with a three finger draw but usually don't stack so badly. Horsebows tend to be faster but have more hand shock than longbows do, in my experience. Generally it is easier to string a longbow, harder to string a horse bow. Twist in the limbs of a horse bow are something to watch for and often happen during stringing. It is fairly easily dealt with, but it is something longbows do not usually suffer from.

I much prefer my Horse bows to my longbows, especially for hunting in the brush. They are much smaller, easier to maneuver, lighter, but still pack serious punch.

My favorite bow; my Scythian horse bow by Grozer. What an amazing weapon.

For what it is worth.

Eledhwen

[Daerir]

I'm not sure if I misread anything but if the longbow is 40lbs at 25" it will definitely be heavier at 28". My guess is that the bow was probably about 50lbs at 28" and really, it wasn't made any different, just measured different.

Another factor is; the shorter the bow, the stiffer it will be. If the bow is shorter than usual, each limb will have to bend further to be strung, putting more tension on the bow itself. A longer bow does not have the stress a shorter bow will. If you shoot it a lot, the bow will become used to the stress and should lighten up a little.

If you want to lighten it up a little without shooting it, string it and just pull the string back, getting as far as you can at first, and gradually increase until you reach the draw length you actually want. Or just lift a few weights, do a few pushups you know

[Daerir]

OH I also forgot to mention technique. My longbow is 55-60lbs @ 28" but at the Ren Faire, an archery show guy handed me a bow, didn't tell me the weight and had me try to draw it back. Well it was heavier than I thought it was... 100lbs. I couldn't believe it but he used the little tool and showed me. (I felt great the rest of the day btw ) But he said the key to drawing it back isn't all arm muscle. A nice trick is to hold your elbow higher when you draw, which uses your back and shoulder muscles and not so much your arms.

I'm not familiar with horsebows, but I would imagine that they have a different technique on shooting than that of a longbow.

[Jon]

Yea make sure you have the right technique.

With my first trad bow I jumped from 25lbs to 50bls... not recommended but was able to do it as soon as I noticed what was wrong with my technique.

Different sorts of bows do feel different though. Also with your horsebow the draw length to draw weight ratio of increase will be straighter whereas a longbow's curve would be more exponential. Longbows are a joy to shoot though so don't give up!

[Strongbow]

Hello Ennelynn and I hope you don't mind me contributing to your discussion. Congratulations on owning a longbow, it is something very special in the world of archery. Regarding your comparison of the longbow with the magyar bows, a recurved bow will feel easier to draw as the recurve takes some of the strain so comparing the two can be misleading. The flexibility of a longbow depends on the woods used and also how warm it is. As you had your bow made for you I sympathise with you in feeling stumped that it is so hard to draw. If your draw length is 24 '' and the bow is 41lbs at 25'', allowing 2 lbs per inch of draw that puts your draw weight at 39lbs. I think myself this is a very high poundage It would be regarded as high for a competitive lady archer, especially with a longbow which might stack as well. I know you can increase your poundage by exercise and weights etc, but not as much as you might think. An archer's poundage is special to him or her, rather like shoe size. Archery benefits from fitness but actually uses only a few specific muscles. In medieval England it took up to 20 years to train a longbow archer to pull over 100 lbs so realistically I am afraid the answer is not to try to come up to the bow but try to get a lighter bow. I know, not what you want to do. But I have to say that pulling a bow that is too heavy for you could injure your archery musclees and make any kind of archery very painful. It is very easy to do and takes a long time to heal. Just pulling one heavy bow can do it. You must feel comfortable; try asking the bowyer can he exchange the bow for a lighter one, or sell it (it is a good poundage to sell) and get something lighter. Unless you are competing in clout, a light bow is better for your back and easier to get a good shot with. 'Overbowing' as it is called has ended many archery careers Myself I would not recommend anything much more than 35lb at 24''. A shorter bow will be stiffer, but it is mostly down to the draw weight. Think about investing in a bow scales or get your bow accurately weighed in an archery shop. And always warm up your muscles with some simple stretches before shooting, and warm up baby - sorry the longbow - by running your palms along the wood. Just my thoughts Ennelynn and best of luck with your longbows!

[Arbellason]

Like strongbow said don't try to pull too much that isn't comfortable I know a guy who did competition for the longest time he did very well then he tried to pull a bow too heavy for him and now he has tons of bows that he can't use anymore.

[Ringulf]

Hmmm...Me thinks we need to get his name and ask him what bows he might have available for Ennelyn!

[Arbellason]

He can't use them but I don't know if he's selling any or if he has any to sell left I'll ask him next I see him. Note most are more modern style recurves.

[Manveruon]

That all being said, Ennelyn, if you ever intend to hunt with a bow, there are restrictions which dictate what poundage a bow must be in order to hunt with it. They vary from state to state, but usually the minimum poundage for bow-hunting is between 40 and 50. That being said, I think the majority of us don't actually hunt (I certainly don't), and I'm guessing that's probably not your immediate priority, but if ever you DID want to, then a heavier bow might be a good idea. Otherwise, what Strongbow said is true - there's no need to work up to a heavy poundage bow if you're just planning on target shooting as a sport or hobby. 35 pounds is more than enough for that sort of thing.

[Arbellason]

I don't any of us shoot English warbow which is a good 100 pound draw weight but I think I might work to that just for the fun of being able to say you pull a 100 pound bow.

[Daerir]

I don't any of us shoot English warbow which is a good 100 pound draw weight but I think I might work to that just for the fun of being able to say you pull a 100 pound bow.

You could be like Howard Hill, before he died, he pulled I think a 90lbs bow at 76 years old when my dad saw him!

[Arbellason]

Once a person starts pulling a bow of that high poundage he never really loses that ability.

[Strongbow]

Arbellason if you can work up to a 100lb longbow you will command my total respect. However the optimum is not massive poundage but a bow weight that is comfortable and non-injurious for you and allows control of your shot and accuracy on the target. And stays that way for up to 150 arrows, the standard FITA metric or field shoot, over consecutive days. Archery is a sport not of strength but of concentration, skill and control. It needs a lot of practice and to do that you need to be able to draw the bow again and again and again....without pranging your back. If a bow is too heavy for you even by a pound, you won't get your draw arm back enough to create a solid weight-bearing line of bone from the bow hand to the draw elbow, with the result that all the joints in between will be half braced and grinding your cartilege to raw pulp. Yes it hurts like the devil, I've done it. The archer's nirvana is the perfect shot, not the massive poundage. There is a shot so beautiful, from the draw to the loose and the arrival of the arrow on the boss, that you do not see it or even hear it but you feel it in your blood. That is not the result of mere weight but of skill and style. The Elves said the Galadhrim wished to have their hands more on the harpstring than on the bowstring, but for an archer they are one and the same. Sorry I do get carried away. It is just a humble longbow archer's opinion