In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

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Manveruon
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In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by Manveruon »

As I know we have discussed at great length around here, Professor Tolkien was fairly sparse when it came to describing the specific garments and material possessions of most characters he created, so when we get a clear, distinct reference to something, it's like a gift. One of those gifts is, of course, the "many-rayed star" of the Dúnedain - fashioned in silver and worn, we are told, as a cloak pin on the left shoulder of the members of the Grey Company (and by extrapolation, probably the rest of the Dúnedain as well). Since this is one of the very few absolutely confirmed and indispensable pieces of a Ranger's kit, the more time goes by the more I feel that I NEED one as part of my own kit, and I'm frustrated that I don't yet have one.

I know there has been a fair deal of debate around here as to exactly what this pin or brooch should look like. True to habit, the Professor never did give a very detailed description. All we know is that it was shaped like a star with "many rays," was made out of silver, and was used as a cloak pin. From this we can guess at the approximate size, and we can assume it had a fairly sturdy pin on the back, but beyond this the details are up for broad interpretation. Thus, many many versions have been batted around on the forums over the years, but for whatever reason none of them really seemed to "do it" for me. Some were really close, but none totally lined up with the way I imagined it.

One of the biggest debates has been the number of points or rays. "Many-rayed" is about as vague as you can get. I have always been partial to it having points in multiples of 4 - ideally 8 or 16. Some have argued that this design resembles the classic "compass star" a little too much. Others have felt it was too close to the Feanorian star, which (to my understanding) generally had 8 points and eight lines emanating as "rays" from the corners where the points meet:
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Personally, I don't think there's any reason that the star of the Dúnedain couldn't have been essentially the same star as the one used by Fëanor, but I'm not well enough versed in the lore to be able to argue that one way or another. Regardless though, I'm quite partial to this design, mainly because the symmetry is pleasing to me, and it doesn't have the somewhat religious feeling of other types of stars (six-pointed stars of course being significant in Judaism, and many other star shapes, particularly ones with odd-numbered points, often being used in various pagan religions and spiritualist ideologies).

A couple folks have made their own versions, like the beautiful 3D printed ones Elleth created a while back, for example, but in the end I was always searching for an 8-to-16-point version that really spoke to me. I had seen people create some stars with rings around them akin to a Celtic cross, and others were discs with the star just etched in, and while these were often gorgeous, they also tended to read "CIRCLE" from a distance rather than "STAR." The closest one I ever saw to looking the way I imagined the star described in the book was the one Urthgard showed with his kit in several pictures years ago during the brief time he was active on the forums - but as I recall he said something to the effect that it was a random thrift-store find, and he had no idea of its origin:
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It wasn't until when Eofor recently joined and shared the absolutely GORGEOUS stars he and his local group in Australia had commissioned some years ago, that I FINALLY felt I had found a design that spoke to me - that made me go "THAT'S IT!" The trouble of course was that he lives in Australia and I in the United States, and also that he and his local group had commissioned these stars specially for themselves from a master jewler and metalworker, so that they would be totally unique and unreplicated (which I can absolutely respect). Pictured here is his version of the pin:
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This led me to decide I was going to try and find a local craftsperson who could create for me a totally unique design of my own that really fit how I imagined the "many-rayed star," and that also hopefully conformed well to the design language we had begun to develop for the Dúnedain culture. Luckily, I know a local fellow through the shop where I work who does various metal castings, and much of his work is really beautiful. It often has a slightly rough, hand-sculpted quality, but the designs he creates are often really ornate, and have a very old-world vibe that I felt was right at home with this project. I explained what I was looking for, and to my pleasant surprise, he actually knew exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the Dúnedain Star. He said he was very interested in the project, and that he would love the opportunity to sell more of them if others were interested (which more than one person had expressed to me when I mentioned it to them). He said he could cast it in bronze and then plate it in silver to keep the costs down while still maintaining an authentic look, which was definitely something that very much appealed to me.
I sent him pictures of Eofor's star and explained to him that I didn't want an EXACT replica, but something very similar. He then came back to me with a slightly different reference that he liked, and asked if he could use that for a little inspiration as well, which I agreed to because I also liked certain elements of it:
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Well after about a month of occasional back-and-forth contact, he sent me an image of the final design for his prototype, which he apparently spent quite a lot of effort refining and finalizing, and unfortunately I have to admit that I found it decidedly disappointing. He had mentioned that he liked the "Celtic border" in the reference image he shared, and I agreed that I liked it, but the circle he had added to his version felt WAY too thick and heavy, and the Celtic knotwork just... didn't read right to me. The "Celtic" design in the reference he shared with me was more of a simple double-twist design, which I liked because it didn't necessarily feel specific to any one time period or culture, but the knotwork he used was EXTREMELY identifiable as CELTIC. Like... EARTH. SCOTTISH/IRISH-CELTIC.
Furthermore, the details in general felt clunky and unrefined (although he did say it still needed some polishing up), and for some reason he put an opal in the center of the prototype piece, when I had previously mentioned something more like a garnet, or at most a piece of tiger-eye or labradorite. here's the image of the prototype he sent:
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Anyway, I responded to him and tried to politely explain the issues I had with the design. I created a quick drawing of what I had in mind, including elongating the points, slimming down the ring, and eliminating the very obvious Celtic knotwork, instead possibly replacing it with pointed arcs (which I felt hearkened back to the Numenorean design motifs we had discussed here on the forums). I also mention that maybe to help make it read more "STAR" instead of "CIRCLE" we could try adding some smaller points to the outside of the ring:
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In the end, he seemed somewhat resistant. Mainly he defended his use of the Celtic motif because he had apparently spent A LOT of time and effort getting that part JUST RIGHT, and he claimed he thought it fit because Numenor and the Dúnedain were themselves inspired by Celtic cultures. He also mentioned that the points around the outside of the circle might be hard to achieve in the final casting, but that he would see what he could do.


SOOOO ANYWAY.

As of now that's where my quest stands. I'm hoping that we can get this design cleaned up and refined to the point that I might be a little happier with it, and if that's the case, I will happily share it with everyone on here so that anyone might be able to get one for themselves. But right now I feel like it still has a ways to go. In the meantime, it looks like I may have another avenue open to me to procure a different version of the brooch which I REALLY REALLY LOVE, but I'm not sure if he wants me spreading it around just yet. In that case I'm not sure what I will do about the project I've got going with this local gentleman here in Denver, but I feel somewhat obligated to see it through to the end at this point. If it's really not something he and I can come to a mutually satisfactory compromise on I'm not sure I can justify buying one from him, even though it is something I specifically requested, but we'll see. At the moment I haven't put down a deposit or anything like that. But I'm hoping that we can get it sorted because I'd love him to be able to offer them up for more people to enjoy with their Ranger kits!
Maerondir Perianseron, also called “Mickel,” Halfling Friend - Ranger of the Misty Mountains
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Elleth
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by Elleth »

Very cool!

When I was doing mine, I played with a couple designs not too far from Eofur's - but he and his crafter had a far better eye for the lines of it. Their work is amazing!
I'm also quite fond of caedmon's "Trewhiddle" approach, and no matter what comes, I think I'll always have a soft spot for that "turtle shell" of his that's been in the banner all these years. :mrgreen:

Regarding the mockup you posted.... I think your reservations have merit.

Using arcs rather not knotwork is absolutely the right move. I'm not sure where your artist is getting "Numenor and the Dúnedain were themselves inspired by Celtic cultures" from. If I recall from the Letters a publisher once alluded to the Silmarillion as having a vaguely Celtic feel, but it's my understanding the good Professor was not exactly a fan. Certainly none of his doodles for elven or Numenorean patterns have such a look.

The only real Celt analogue in Middle-earth I know of is the Dunlendings - possibly also the Wain-Riders from Gondor's deep history, but if memory serves those are related peoples anyhow.

More particularly, to the design:

- lore-wise I'm coming around to base-5 points b/c of Tolkien's Tree of Gondor drawing, but think it's a totally open question and 8 still just *looks* right to me. So I dunno, but I like what you got. :P

- if you use a rim, I agree the thinner rim is the way to go. In my own explorations, a wide rim ended up looking either clunky, Old West Sheriff/Texas Ranger, or both. So definately on the right track there I think. And you're absolutely right: arcs of some kind, not knotwork.

- the biggest variable in casting I think will be the thinness of the primary rays. At least that was the experience I had with Shapeways: wide squat rays they had no problems with: thin pointy ones were more prone to casting defects. What you have looks great, and well inside the safe boundary for both primary and secondary rays.

- I think I like the secondary rays on the circle-rim. In bronze - especially patinated bronze - I might worry it could conceivably start looking "Warhammer Spiky" - but I think in silver you'll be fine. (edit... looking at it more, I'm coming to think it might look cleaner without the secondary points. But that's totally a taste thing)

- The only thing I'm iffy on is the "riveted shield boss" look of the gemstone bezel. I think I'd follow Eofur's lead there with a thinner bezel. Or if keeping a thick bezel, look at some kind on inscribed ray / arc pattern rather than raised "rivets." Maybe make the bezel slightly domed. A thinner bezel though would share the same grace as the thin rim and finer points, so I think that will probably end up looking the most balanced.
(edit - "incised arc lines on a raised slightly domed bezel" does risk pushing you into neo-Egyptian "Stargate" territory. I'd not want to go very far in that direction, although it would admittedly be closer to the Professor's vision of the Dunedain than Celtic knotwork)


- I think given the size you're looking at, you'll feel better in the long run just going with cast silver. Unless it's quite big (like over 2-3 ounces) I think the price difference will be forgotten over the years, and your happiness with the piece will grow.

Regardless- excellent work! I think you're on a great track and look forward to seeing what you come up with!
Last edited by Elleth on Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by Ghostsoldier »

Excellent topic Michael!

I look forward to seeing what you eventually decide on, because I feel my kit isn't going to be 'complete' until I add a star brooch, too... it just seems integral to the overall impression.

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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by Udwin »

Odigan and I were discussing the matter of Ranger Stars recently, and I thought that nine rays looked pretty nice. LOTRO uses a seven-rayed star for Arnorian stuff, which aligns with the seven Palantiri. But nine made even more sense to me as it is the number of ships of the Faithful saved from the Downfall. Surely that's the kind of numerology the Dunedain would want to commemorate. Plus the odd number prevents the compass rose look.
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by Elleth »

If anyone's interested, I can try to work up a preview for what a 5/10, 6/12, or 7/14 might look like, using Manv's ring and Eofur's stone.

For those who missed the first go-round, here was my take: simple 8-point.

Image


... and my experiments with various proportions for primary/secondary rays:

Image
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by theowl »

It's super awkward when someone takes artistic license with a design, especially when they're not receptive to issues. That being said, I really like the second design with the arcs better, so maybe it's a blessing.
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by theowl »

Also, appreciation for Elleth's star. It's probably the 5th star I've tried and I love it. The only issue I had was I filed down the points because they were SHARP. Other than that it's fantastic, and it's developed a cool patina.
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by Greg »

Some craftsmen can be tricky to deal with because they, of course, know how much time and effort went into what they've done, but you're the buyer, of course, and if it's not what you want to pay for, you aren't obligated to pay...

Awkward situation, but I can't blame you at all. I only see loose similarities between the references you and he used and what he came up with...I wouldn't have been pleased with it either. I don't know your craftsperson, but they may not be thrilled to find out how exacting and picky this little community can be for details! Celtic knotwork and Numenorean motifs are NOT the same things.
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by RangerofAngmar »

getting something commissioned can be a fun experience, more so if the craftsman is on the same page as you.

I have had a few really good dealings with craftsman who have delivered exactly what i envisioned without any issue. and those times are great

i have also had some who deliver their idea of what you want and it can be disappointing, they either miss the mark completely or are not able to create what they have talked up being able to do.

its a roll of the dice but still a good experience, dont give up and keep pushing for your vision and in time it will come

at least be thankful you are trying to get your vision made solo and not with a group of people who all have different ideas and dismiss your ideas so easy, then when the time comes to get it done, use your ideas and say they are their ideas all along hahaha. At least at the end of that one i still ended up with what i wanted
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by Cimrandir »

Ah Manveruon, a timely topic as I've been doodling star design for the past several weeks!

- First, I'm sorry to hear about the disagreement with the artist over the interpretation. I definitely agree that while there are hints of northern post-Roman cultures in the Dunedain, the artwork is decidedly non-Celtic in appearance. The Professor's own Númenórean artwork bears this out I think. I do love the arches in your circle and might have to crib that for a design I've been tinkering with lately.

- Speaking of circles, I've seen that particular design before on the internet and I really like it. I know that a surrounding circle isn't super popular on the forum because of the Texas Ranger connotations but I think if you project the points past the circle as you have done it looks super sharp to me. Also helps with wearing it as a brooch I believe.

- Elleth and Udwin, it is interesting to me that a 5 point and a 9 point are your thoughts on the number of rays. Based on some (old) threads dating back to the first iteration of the forum-wide star with E.MacKermak, I was under the impression that a 6 pointed star was the one most supported by the lore. I might have to do some re-thinking here in that case. Not a huge fan of 5 (that definitely looks like a Texas Ranger star to me) and I imagine that 9 would be quite "busy' as a design but I'll play around with it.

- Slightly unrelated to the the Dunedain but does anyone have an idea of the artistic history of stars? Given the Professor's love of the Anglo-Saxons, I tried to find some Anglo-Saxon depictions of stars for inspiration and while I found some hints of star motifs in passing, there were no pictures of them. I couldn't find Egyptian or Roman depictions of stars either and I know that Númenor had some influence from them. Always fun to try to meld history and Tolkien together for Middle-earth.
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by RangerofAngmar »

Swastikas, Flyfots, sunwheel etc all represent the sun and are multi armed. other then that i personally have not seen many deceptions of stars other then the classic 5 pointed star is paintings etc
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by RangerofAngmar »

and even tho a 5 pointed star looks very texas ranger or gothy, Númenor was in the shape of a 5 pointed star so would the ranger star resemble that to show where they came from?
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by Taurinor »

Oh no, the "how many points are on a Grey Company star brooch" debate! All is lost!

:mrgreen:
Cimrandir wrote:Based on some (old) threads dating back to the first iteration of the forum-wide star with E.MacKermak, I was under the impression that a 6 pointed star was the one most supported by the lore.
I think the star most supported by the lore is that there is not really a star that is most supported by the lore. As Elleth rightfully points out, the Professor's drawing of the tree of Gondor shows 5 pointed stars. "Many-rayed" makes me personally think more than five might be appropriate, though, and like Udwin says, the number of ships seems like a good thing to base the number of rays on, but an argument can be made for the number of the Palantiri, as well.

I don't think we will ever be able to say with any real certainty, unless some lost sketch or note or letter turns up. I think it likely comes down to each person deciding what they think is the most justifiable based on the lore.
Cimrandir wrote:Given the Professor's love of the Anglo-Saxons, I tried to find some Anglo-Saxon depictions of stars for inspiration and while I found some hints of star motifs in passing, there were no pictures of them.
One inspiration that has been suggested on the forum before is the Faversham disk brooch, which looks a bit like a star. I believe Jack drew some inspiration from that piece (and ones like it) for his star brooch. I also did a search for "star brooch", limited to the early medieval period on finds.co.uk, which got some hits - you might find some inspiration there, or do some different searches to see what you get!
Last edited by Taurinor on Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by Cimrandir »

Oh yes sorry, far be it from me to resurrect yet another debate about the points. It was quite a while ago that I read those threads and to be honest, I don’t remember the exact evidence for six anyway. I’d have to track it down again but that’s just what I remember. Personally, I like eight points and don’t really mind the compass rose look but searching for the most culturally appropriate is the goal.

Wow! That Faversham disk brooch is gorgeous! I can’t believe I haven’t see it before. Definitely star-like! I liked Caedmon’s Star very much and it’s neat to know the inspiration!
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Re: In Search of the Many-Rayed Star

Post by Udwin »

Egyptian tombs often had stars on the ceilings, very skinny 5-pointed (see attached)

I agree that the shape of Numenor is good 'evidence' for the 5-pointed option.

In Tolkien's examples of 1A heraldry, Elwe has 5-points; Earendil has small 4-points and a large 6-point in the center (the rays of which to my eyes look curved and cut down on the Star of David look); Gil-Galad has 4-, 5-, and 6-points!; Luthien has 5-points; the House of Haleth has Earendil-style 6points; and the Silmarils themselves are depicted as chunky 8-pointed.
An alternative heraldic device for Earendil includes a ring around the star and would look pretty cool as a Ranger badge by itself.

Not to derail, but while pulling up the Egyptian example I also found this tomb of Sennufer, which looked very Numenorean in its design style to my eyes:
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