On the subject of blankets and shelters

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Iodo
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On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Iodo »

I've been thinking about getting some proper kit together, I'm not to bothered about serious bush-craft/wild camping etc... at the moment, I just thought it would be cool to be able to spend a night dwarven style at a medieval fair or something (because all events are cancelled this year I'll probably just end up camping in the garden :P ) so now that my work has closed I thought it was as good a time as any to start to research what I could get, I'll start off asking about blankets and move on to shelters later:

Blankets:
My first questions are what kind of blanket do you have and how much does it weigh? I've done quite a bit of reading about this and it seems that proper blankets are heavy, that depends on the size of blanket, a few people have recommended that for sleeping rough I need at least a Queen size blanket, but there seems to be mixed opinion and some people say twin is OK, I'm guessing this depends on the temperature where it's being used?

I've looked at a few possibility's, I could get something cheaper that will do for a hot summers night and not much else but I wanted to avoid getting something not good enough and having to replace it in the future, so I've decided I'm not to worried about cost (as long as it's not insane) because I've saved plenty of money lately (by not being aloud out the door to spend money)

This one looks like one of the best options, but it's heavy: (or I think it's heavy, compared to a backpacking sleeping bag anyway, I don't know what' normal for blankets, also could I get away with twin size ?)
https://www.alpaca4less.com/copy-of-alp ... ct-reviews

There are also two on the townsends site, the first one is lighter, because it's smaler:
https://www.townsends.us/products/the-w ... 9cd0&_ss=r
and the second one is so light it must be to good to be true (while being slightly bigger than the first) so I'm not convinced:
https://www.townsends.us/products/patte ... 9cd0&_ss=r
both of these are more expensive, and people on other sites anyway seem to prefer alpaca wool?

Other than that, the Hudson bay blanket is popular but it seems to be almost impossible to find one of those in anything other than the traditional bright colors
These are a possible solution, and it would be cheaper to go second hand: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Earl ... Sw-9lebpQO (this one is 4 point so that's slightly smaller than the queen size one I mentioned first) although none of the listings include weight so I have no idea what I'm buying?

so all that considered, I'm open to suggestions and thanks for your time :P
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Elleth »

I have been on a total blanket kick lately, playing with all sorts of stuff - so this is a fun thread!

I'm about to start getting ready for work and can't pull out everything for pictures and measurements, but a few quick notes in no particular order:


1. I've never gotten into alpaca for authentiticity reasons. SierraStrider I believe swears by it. I've an old shawl of alpaca and it's quite warm for its weight, so I can believe he and the bushcrafters have a point.

2. Warmth is not the only consideration: you also want something fulled tightly enough that every little branch won't pull at the weave. Old army blankets were made for exactly this purpose, and a good heavy army blanket (of any nation) is certainly sturdy enough and generally of decent weight enough to be warm. BUT are more likely to be scratchy and uncomfortable - I believe generally because they're economizing on what grade of wool goes into the blanket. "Remember your equipment was made by the lowest bidder." :mrgreen:

The market is flooded now with COPIES of the good army blankets (Swiss and Italian Officers were the last highly recommended ones I remember, but I'm sure there are others). I believe lots are basically trash, but some aren't bad. We got a couple copies of the Italian Officer ones as warmth layers for guest bedding a year or two ago, and they are actually pretty okay. So on a budget... you could do worse. I still look for 100% wool and heavier weight if I can get it.

Regarding army blankets generally - the US regulation standard in the late 19th/early 20th c. contained:
3) The blanket was to be 7 feet long by 5 feet 6 inches wide.
4) To weigh not less than 5 pounds.
-http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/80th/ww1-blankets.html
... I keep those in mind when blanket shopping - the weight especially.

The ideal size is purely a tradeoff you'll have to work out with your body size and how you sleep I'm afraid: but I will say I have a 6-point that is a DREAM to sleep in but incredibly bulky.

3. Townsend's blankets are from Faribault mill:
https://faribaultmill.com
For what it's worth, I got one of their "foot soldier" blankets on clearance as the specification on their site matched (I believed at the time) regulations of the early 20th c, and I wanted to see how those worked. To be honest, I was a little disappointed at the weight of it: it's sturdy enough, but so light I wouldn't trust it alone. I don't know yet if that's because Faribault's rendition is only so-so, or because the standards themselves are optimistic. I'm inclined to believe the former: I think it's intended less as an idealized copy of an army blanket and more as a throw for a mancave or something.

edit: I see now the website SAYS it's 3.5 pounds, so already underweight for a proper army blanket. Maybe it's that heavy. I haven't thrown it on a scale, but it sure feels awful light.

I don't know how well this translates to the models Townsends are selling - they're LOVELY to look at... but I'm a little skeptical given my experience so far.
Which is a shame, I LOVE Townsends. But I wouldn't trust any of the Faribault "midweight" blankets alone.
:(

4. THAT SAID - one decent option is two thin blankets rather than one thick one. There's some nice flexibility there for hot summer nights, and since what you're really after is dead air, the layering of two thin blankets can beat one thick one: provided the weave is tight enough to keep out the wind.

While I've not tried it, I've heard of folks layering browse between them as an in-the-field improvised comforter. I think that's somewhat dependent on what's available in your area and how much you're willing to tear up the campsite, and I'm sure there's a trick to doing it and not having everything come apart at 2AM - but it's a route to explore.

5. The top shelf option is something hand-woven, properly fulled, and intended to go to the field. That's a quite hard job I think, as makers are coming and going from the field constantly. I suspect it's the kind of thing no one can really afford to do in the current world if they want to make an actual living. BUT by sniffing around places like here and 18th c. reenactment places and Civil War reenactment places, you can start to get a sense for who the current makers are. (I think a lot of that's moved to Facebook in the last 5-10 years though). Expect to pay well over $200, maybe over $300 for that.

6. If I had to buy an off-the-shelf blanket for trekking purposes: 100% wool point trade blanket. I'd prefer a more traditional pattern of course, but of everything I've played with, NOTHING balances weight, durability, comfort, and warmth so well. They were the standard for centuries for a reason. My personal favorite is Early's of Witney, but they're no longer made and you have to be careful with buying antiques. Some are AWESOME and almost as good as new. The one I just got looked decent enough in pictures but was a moth-eaten rag in person.
So... caveat emptor.

ALSO - just because it's an Early's blanket doesn't mean it was made to the same standard as their trade blankets. I've an (originally) all white blanket from them that is quite comfortable - but nowhere near heavy enough for trekking. Ask the weight if you're not sure.

And that's all I got for now. :)


edit: the Early's blanket you link to looks like a great model, and I love the colors (remember though you can easily dye wool).
BUT those holes worry me. If they're really damage from springs, I wouldn't worry about them at all and just sew them up. If they're moth damage, then who knows how much of the rest of the integrity of the blanket is chewed away.

From the photos it's PROBABLY okay, and if I was in the market for my first blanket I'd strongly consider that one - but might look a bit more for the same thing in better shape, even if it costs a bit more.
Last edited by Elleth on Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Iodo
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Iodo »

Elleth wrote:1. I've never gotten into alpaca for authentiticity reasons. SierraStrider I believe swears by it. I've an old shawl of alpaca and it's quite warm for its weight, so I can believe they have a point.
Everyone I've asked elsewhere has told me it's warmer, I'm not to bothered about what it's made of providing I can make it look authentic, I quite like the pattern on the one I linked apart from the white stitching but that's easily changed. On your second point you mentioned how well it's fulled and that's the one thing I can't tell when buying online so it's still a risk. Although as far as weight goes:
3) The blanket was to be 7 feet long by 5 feet 6 inches wide.
4) To weigh not less than 5 pounds.
-http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/80th/ww1-blankets.html
this means 6.3lbs isn't heavier than would be expected for a blanket of that size, and that the townsends ones are very light

Thanks for the link to Faribault mill, I think that this: https://www.faribaultmill.com/collectio ... 7040180333 is the same as this: https://www.townsends.us/products/patte ... 9cd0&_ss=r which at queen size weighs 5.4lbs, although it doesn't look like they offer shipping to the UK, and given it's weight and your experience I think it's on the thin side anyway
Elleth wrote:use more recycled shorter-staple wool (or worse aren't all wool) - and are more likely to be scratchy and uncomfortable.
I know about scratchy and uncomfortable after having camped using a £30 recycled army blanket, I mean, it worked (it was mid summer), I wasn't cold but it was terrible, so terrible I cut it up and made it into stuff straight after. I've heard alpaca wool is really soft and that's one of the things that pushes me in that direction, and away from anything using any recycled wool at all
Elleth wrote:4. Consider two thin blankets rather than one thick one. There's some nice flexibility there, and while I've not tried it I've heard of folks layering browse between them as an in-the-field improvised comforter. I think that's somewhat dependent on what's available in your area and how much you're willing to tear up the campsite, and I'm sure there's a trick to doing it and not having everything come apart at 2AM - but it's a route to explore.
I think I move around to much in my sleep for that, but one of the things I was thinking I could try was to have another piece of thick wool, maybe 2ft by 6ft, to use as ground insulation in place of a camping mat, then I wouldn't need to take with me if it didn't look like it was going to be cold, a similar principle to using a sheepskin
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Iodo
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Iodo »

Elleth wrote: edit: the Early's blanket you link to looks like a great model, and I love the colors (remember though you can easily dye wool).
BUT those holes worry me. If they're really damage from springs, I wouldn't worry about them at all and just sew them up. If they're moth damage, then who knows how much of the rest of the integrity of the blanket is chewed away.

From the photos it's PROBABLY okay, and if I was in the market for my first blanket I'd strongly consider that one - but might look a bit more for the same thing in better shape, even if it costs a bit more.
I did want to try to avoid buying second hand for fears of wasting my money, I guess I could message the guy and ask how heavy it is, if it's worn thin it would be lighter

there's also these two:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-EARL ... 1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EARLYS-WITNE ... 1438.l2649
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Udwin »

I'll second the Caveat Emptor remark; my first blanket for trekking purposes was a gray Hudson Bay 4-point....from eBay. For $65 in 2013 I thought it was a good deal, but it was an older style HBC, and was probably close to 100 years old. Super thin and scratchy, but still 5 pounds of weight.
I wound up pairing it with a thicker handwoven 1/2 size blanket (but still 4 pounds--higher weight-to-size ratio) but that combo was very bulky, and I REALLLLY wanted to be able to go out with only one blanket.
Last fall I lucked out at a a rendezvous and scored a like-new (thick, fluffy, good nap) 4-point HBC for only $50, in a golden yellow. It can be seen in the latest Edge of the Wild. I haven't gotten around to weighing it yet, but would guess it is probably 6.5 or 7 pounds.
My best advice would be to avoid buying unless you can inspect it in person, and be patient. Keep your eyes open, and the right one is bound to come up eventually.
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Elleth
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Elleth »

FWIW, just weighed the two Early's blankets we have:

4 point: 4.8 lbs. (feels like it's worn a bit thin, but still has decent life in it)
6 point: 7.5 lbs. (got second hand ~10 years ago in an Alaskan second hand store. Now it's our daily "comfy room" blanket by whoever manages to grab it first. Still very comfy. :mrgreen:

I'll get pictures for those and a couple hand-woven blankets up for comparison this evening.

For now - PROVIDED the alpaca is woven and fulled tightly enough to block the wind and stand up to pulling brambles, that seems a just fine option.

Regarding size: just roll up in the various bedding blankets you have around the house and see what you can get away with.
Basically you're just trying to be able to get comfortable in your normal sleeping position without having lots of little gaps and open spots for the wind to sneak in - so that's a chore best done on a cold windy night in the back yard. :)
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Taurinor »

I mostly second everything everyone else has said!

I have a few wool blankets, but I tend to use a twin-size Israeli military surplus blanket (100% wool) in mild weather and a second-hand 6 point (queen size) HBC in colder weather. It was also the golden yellow color, but I dunked it in some brown Ritt and it went a dusty orange-y brown that reminds me very much of beech leaves in fall and winter. The 6 point weighs about 6 pounds, so it might not be as plush as it once was, but it's not threadbare or scratchy, and it's large enough to burrito in. I also carry a half-blanket as a cloak, so that gets added to the bedding, as well.

In Bushcraft 101, Dave Canterbury recommends carry both a twin-size AND queen-size wool blanket, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how someone is supposed to carry all that in a manageable bundle. He provides sketches of a bedroll set-up, but the images don't seem to match the math...
Iodo wrote:I think I move around to much in my sleep for that, but one of the things I was thinking I could try was to have another piece of thick wool, maybe 2ft by 6ft, to use as ground insulation in place of a camping mat, then I wouldn't need to take with me if it didn't look like it was going to be cold, a similar principle to using a sheepskin
On the more general subject of warmth while sleeping, building a debris bed makes a big difference. Even in the summer, you don't want to lay directly on the ground. Most of the year, even a thick piece of wool (unless maybe it was felted, but yikes, that'd be a huge project) won't cut it. I learned that one the hard way... If you're a restless sleeper, consider a browse bag, which is just a long canvas/oilskin sack that you can fill with leaf litter and use as a mattress.

Another warmth-related note - my understanding is that folks who used to do this sort of thing didn't expect to stay warm in just their blankets; they expected to have a fire. Modern sleeping bags and pads are made with the expectation that you won't have a fire, so I think a lot of us have gotten used to that way of doing things. I ran across a really interesting article about 18th century woodsfolk and how they might have use their tools differently than we might, and shelter and warmth are some of the subjects covered.
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Elleth »

Taurinor - cool! Thank you for the 18th c. link especially.

Here's what I can compare:
merf-wool-blanket-comparison.jpg
merf-wool-blanket-comparison.jpg (40.82 KiB) Viewed 17880 times
Note: all measurements below are hasty tape-measure-on-the-bedroom-floor measurements, and some of these blankets definitely have some years and wear on them. If you tell me they don’t match what the factory says they should be, I’m not at all surprised. (Excepting for my Stone blanket, which I think I mismeasured in width a couple years ago)

Here they are, left to right. All are folded lengthwise in quarters, then rolled:

“What Price Glory” M1885 “Indian Wars” blanket:
Size: (tbd, nominally 64x”x 90”)
Weight: ~3lb
Thoughts: Purchased as an example of what might have been on the civilian surplus market in the early 1900’s “Golden Age of Camping.” Far lighter weight than I was given to expect from the website. Honestly, feels like trash.

Faribault “Foot Soldier” blanket:
Size: 70” x 92”
Weight: 3.5 lb
Thoughts: I should have read the description better: I THOUGHT I was getting a new-made blanket to the old army standard. The dimensions are about right, but it is well underweight for a regulation blanket. Soft and comfortable, but inadequate I think for outdoor use.

Early’s of Witney plain white (walnut dyed):
Size: ~70” x 92”
Weight: 4 lb
Thoughts: Purchased on eBay hoping for an unstriped version of a Point blanket. I should have read better or asked more questions: it’s noticeably thinner and more loosely woven - so not really suited for much cold. BUT it’s very soft and comfy, and a nice lighter weight blanket.

Moreover, I find the extra few inches of width and length over a standard 4 point makes a WORLD of difference, far more than one might think just looking at the numbers. This is one of those “nineteen nineteen and six...” things - a single inch too short means a cold breeze always wanting to find its way under the wool.
“"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."
Charles Dickens, David Copperfield
Knockoff “Italian Officer” blanket:
Size: 63.5” x 85:
Weight: 4.2lb
Thoughts: Nice dark color, decent weight, good feel - very sturdy. Feels a little felted, but that’s not bad. As I recall it was sold as all or mostly wool, and was around $40. A very good choice for the money, but you might want to double up in cold weather.

I find it just a bit narrow for comfort - but again, a pair overlapped would serve nicely for less money at the cost of more bulk.

Early’s Witney 4 point:
Size: ~66 x 85”
Weight: 4.8 lb
Thoughts: Good general purpose size and weight. A bit thinned with age, but still decent. I was very happy with it until I rolled up in it side-by-side with the Stone. Compared to the hand-woven, it’s a bit thin, a bit narrow - but absolutely serviceable. Given its age and wear, I don’t think AS IS this one is worth much of a premium over a good quality army blanket of comparable weight.

Handwoven, Rob Stone (c. 2007)
Size: 74” x 84.5”
Weight: 5.9 lbs.
Thoughts: still my very favorite “general use” blanket. Near perfect balance of weight to warmth. Perhaps not as fuzzy-soft as it was a decade ago, but still so nice I can’t bear to dunk it in dye to make it more “ranger correct.”

This blanket strikes me as what the Early’s 4-point *should* be - and maybe what that one was when it was new. The extra width and the extra pound and change of weight make a *huge* difference.

Early’s Witney 6 point:
Size: ~95”x 95.5”
Weight: 7.5 lb
Thoughts: Perhaps not quite as thick and fuzzy as it once was, but still warm and comfy. The size makes it very easy to get in a nice solid cocoon. Quite bulky compared to the 4-point. My most comfortable “off the shelf” blanket.


Handwoven, John of Stone Arabie (c. 2018)
Size: 84” x 111”
Weight: 10.3 lb (!!!)
Thoughts: Woven to order from fleece from our herd. DENSE DENSE and OMG HEAVIER than I expected. A bit scratchy, insanely warm. Not something I’d choose to carry unless expecting a lot of cold - but would WITHOUT QUESTION be my first choice in winter.

The weaver described this as: “twill woven, 30% fulled, bulky weight 3-ply yarn”





Summary
In going through all these blankets, I was again reminded of the general qualities that make a good outdoor blanket: it should be tightly woven and densely fulled, to a weight of at least 4.5 and preferably ~6 lb for a blanket of ~ 4point size - then a good nap should be raised up.

I find a 4-point *just* big enough, but a 6 point is far more comfortable. Your body size and sleeping position will have the final say.

Finally, a tip I ran across from an old timer on one board or another : if your blanket’s a bit scratchy, try using hair conditioner on it. It’s not a miracle cure, but seems to help at the margin.
:)




Regarding sheepskins:

I think I’m missing something - when I put down a purchased Icelandic sheepskin as a sleeping mat, then get off and lie on a single thickness of my Rob Stone blanket, there is no comparison. The fur of the sheepskin compresses to almost nothing. The blanket compresses as well, but right away is noticeably better at keeping warmth from seeping into the ground.

Given the mass of fibers woven into the blanket vs the mass of fibers growing from a given section of pelt, this doesn’t really surprise me.

I think pelts make a LOT of sense up top - that’s what nature made all that fur for after all. I don’t see that one gains much with them underneath.

That said, maybe the pelt I have is a poor quality tanning job, or was harvested in the summer when the fleece was at its thinnest, or something else. I’m quite curious to hear from those with more experience using pelts as sleeping mats - what do you use, where did you find it, and how well does it work?


Regarding blanket covers:
I’ve been meaning for ages to try a canvas bedroll cover one of these days. I have no experience with them, but just looking at them it seems they would be fantastic for blocking the weather, keeping blankets in place, and just generally keeping a lot of nice dead air all around the body.

They also look to be quite heavy, so perhaps there’s a reason canvas bedrolls are associated more with mounted cowboys than mountain men or longhunters (or rangers!).

I’m curious to hear from anyone who’s tried them, or tried threading the needle with a lighter weight blanket cover of oilskin or something.
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Elleth »

PS: I've never purchased from these folks, but if the measurements are in fact accurate, this looks like a grand blanket at a decent price: if a bit loud for our purposes:
https://nwtrader.com/hand-woven_early_blankets.html
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Elleth »

Ah - one more thing. I did a bit of quick math on each of those blankets:

“What Price Glory” M1885 “Indian Wars” blanket:
1.2 oz / ft2

Faribault “Foot Soldier” blanket:
1.25 oz / ft2

Early’s of Witney plain white (walnut dyed):
1.43 oz / ft2

Knockoff “Italian Officer” blanket:
1.79 oz / ft2

Early’s Witney 4 point:
1.97 oz / ft2

Handwoven, Rob Stone (c. 2007)
2.17 oz / ft2

Early’s Witney 6 point:
1.90 oz / ft2

Handwoven, John of Stone Arabie (c. 2018)
2.55 oz / ft2

Going over them again today, I find "thick and comfy enough for outside" to start around 1.8, and the closer to ~2.2, the better.


... and the Alpaca one you were looking at:
95" x 92" = 8740 sq inches
6.5 lb = 104 oz
1.71 oz/sq ft

So it's a bit heavier than the "plain white Early's" blanket I have, and a bit lighter than the knockoff "Italian Officer" one.

I have NO IDEA how alpaca wool compares to sheep wool - and of course there's TONS of other variables (nap/loft, thickness of the yarn, etc...)

But that said - if the fibers are close to comparable, I suspect the blanket you're looking at might be a little light on its own.

Then again, the guy on the promo said its awesome and I know I'm a wuss in cold, so... I dunno. :)
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Peter Remling »

Thoroughly enjoyed the article Taurinor posted and it brings to mind this thread from a decade ago:

http://www.middleearthrangers.org/forum ... y+stations


Some great similarities with a few differences. The long hunters main camps are used for only 1/2 the year while the Ranger's Way Station would be year round. I'd add on a small smoke house slightly away from the cabin.
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Meganbeyer »

Alpaca wool is warmer than sheep wool by a lot, However, It does not retain heat if it gets wet! I think if i remember right alpaca is about 75% warmer than sheep wool, and it is a lot softer than most other wool.
I used a canvas bedroll cover when i started doing mounted distance rides. it did help with keeping warmer, and cuttin the wind. My trouble was that it was not very conforming to my other gear. This may have been because i used 18oz waxed canvas, and now believe that to be overkill. I am planning on making a new bed roll skin out of a cotton or linen light tickin material, then using a oil/wax to waterproof it. Also think about how you sleep, if you don't like being confined to a sleeping bag then a loose canvas blanket to make a bed roll maybe better...
Only ideas... maybe look on amazon for wool blankets also. I think i seen one advertised as a 5.5lb blanket at $45
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Harper »

I have a number of wool blankets including: HB, Faribault, Johnston's and from various militaries.

The ones I use most are the Alpacas. The Banderita in the colder half of the year and the Super Fine in the warmer half. I primarily use them indoors, but the Bandrita is suitable for the outdoors. You would need a groundcloth because they are leaf litter magnets. But you should have a groundcloth anyway. As an aside, I believe that the Super Fine in grey would make a great Elven Cloak.

Alpaca is wool, just not from sheep. It is a hollow fiber and does not contain lanolin. Some say that it is 5-6x warmer. I don't believe that. But it is certainly warmer--compared to the same thickness. Some people forget that and compare them to blankets twice as thick and twice as heavy.

Importantly for your intended use, Alpaca is both lighter and less bulky. Considerably so. Alpaca is almost as soft as cashmere (this is important) for a fraction of the cost. Once people catch on in the coming years, I can see their prices going up to HB levels. Alpaca is also stronger than cashmere.

I have found that the Banderitas (I have 3) shed some for the first season or two. It's kind of like having a big dog around. If you put them in the dryer on NO HEAT, that will speed up the process until it becomes a non-issue.

As for size, it depends on the weather conditions in which you intend to use the blankets. I would start with a Queen Size so that you can make a "Bushcraft Burrito" to provide additonal layers when needed. You could fold it in half (maybe with some blanket pins) for normal usage. Two thinner blankets could be used to provide a broader temperature range--but with additional weight, bulk and cost. As Taurinor pointed out, wool blankets are often used in conjunction with a fire in the coldest weather conditions.

Bushcraft Burrito:


Here are some other resources:
https://wildhairpress.weebly.com/whats- ... fiber.html

https://alpacasofmontana.blogspot.com/2 ... leece.html

With respect to the Banderita Blanket, I think mine were 60% Alpaca and 40% Merino. The best of both worlds. Also, make sure you check the shipping price. Shipping was a little on the high side in the US. I don't know if that holds true for international shipping.

Good Luck!
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Iodo »

Thank so much everyone :P this is a lot of information to take in :mrgreen: and it's really helpful
Udwin wrote: Last fall I lucked out at a a rendezvous and scored a like-new (thick, fluffy, good nap) 4-point HBC for only $50, in a golden yellow. It can be seen in the latest Edge of the Wild. I haven't gotten around to weighing it yet, but would guess it is probably 6.5 or 7 pounds.
My best advice would be to avoid buying unless you can inspect it in person, and be patient. Keep your eyes open, and the right one is bound to come up eventually.

I honestly don't think I'll ever be able to inspect in person, apart from the recycled army wool blankets (that I'm staying away from) I can't find anything from a UK supplier, or even the UK second hand market, that's heavier than 1.2 oz / ft2 and from what Elleth says that's not nearly enough, I guess people over here just don't do that kind of stuff? If I remember rightly, difficulty trying to find a wool blanket was the main reason why I never considered putting together overnight kit years ago
Taurinor wrote: On the more general subject of warmth while sleeping, building a debris bed makes a big difference. Even in the summer, you don't want to lay directly on the ground. Most of the year, even a thick piece of wool (unless maybe it was felted, but yikes, that'd be a huge project) won't cut it. I learned that one the hard way... If you're a restless sleeper, consider a browse bag, which is just a long canvas/oilskin sack that you can fill with leaf litter and use as a mattress

I agree that's probably my best option, I already plan to make a ground cloth similar to the one on Andy's archive over on the wiki (http://www.middleearthrangers.org/wiki/ ... :_Soft_Kit)

Elleth wrote: Handwoven, John of Stone Arabie (c. 2018)
Size: 84” x 111”
Weight: 10.3 lb (!!!)
Thoughts: Woven to order from fleece from our herd. DENSE DENSE and OMG HEAVIER than I expected. A bit scratchy, insanely warm. Not something I’d choose to carry unless expecting a lot of cold - but would WITHOUT QUESTION be my first choice in winter.
The weaver described this as: “twill woven, 30% fulled, bulky weight 3-ply yarn”

That's insane, it must be one of the thickest blankets ever made :mrgreen: I wouldn't like to have to carry it any distance

You mentioned sheepskins, I have an old worn-out sheepskin rug on my bedroom floor, when I've been camping and put it on the ground in my tent under a sleeping bag, it feels about as warm as one of those thin foam mats backpackers use (specifically this one that I have: https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15901646/o ... t-15901646)

Elleth wrote: For now - PROVIDED the alpaca is woven and fulled tightly enough to block the wind and stand up to pulling brambles, that seems a just fine option.
Elleth wrote:... and the Alpaca one you were looking at:
95" x 92" = 8740 sq inches
6.5 lb = 104 oz
1.71 oz/sq ft
But that said - if the fibers are close to comparable, I suspect the blanket you're looking at might be a little light on its own.
Then again, the guy on the promo said its awesome and I know I'm a wuss in cold, so... I dunno. :)
I'm thinking seriously about this one, simply because it might be the easiest (and not as risky as buying second hand) to import to the UK, there are a few other video's on the net that aren't sponsored and they seem to say good things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT5sgotvKic

on one video, I'd link it but I lost it, the guy holds it up to the light and hardly any light shines through, is that a good measure of how densely the fibers are woven? also if, like Harper and Megan say, alpaca is warmer than sheep's wool, I guess I should be OK with it being a bit thinner, after all, I'll have a fire
Meganbeyer wrote:Alpaca wool is warmer than sheep wool by a lot, However, It does not retain heat if it gets wet! I think if i remember right alpaca is about 75% warmer than sheep wool, and it is a lot softer than most other wool
then I guess I would have to be extra careful not to let it get damp, that's good to know :P
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Re: On the subject of blankets and shelters

Post by Elleth »

I'm thinking seriously about this one...
From the videos, it certainly looks like it has great bulk and nap: I'm quite curious to hear how it works out for you! :mrgreen:
the guy holds it up to the light and hardly any light shines through, is that a good measure of how densely the fibers are woven?
Hunh...I think generally, yes. But a lightly woven blanket can be quite warm if it's nappy enough and there's not a lot of air movement.
Conversely a tightly woven but thin wool can be insufficient.

At least with sheep's wool blankets, there's a certain texture you're looking for that's hard to put into words. A tight dense core, fulled tightly enough you don't really see the weave - then a sort of fuzzy "halo" where the nap has been brushed out. I don't even know if it photographs well - but once you see it in person, you'll know what I mean. :)
Meganbeyer wrote:
Alpaca wool is warmer than sheep wool by a lot, However, It does not retain heat if it gets wet! I think if i remember right alpaca is about 75% warmer than sheep wool, and it is a lot softer than most other wool

then I guess I would have to be extra careful not to let it get damp, that's good to know :P
Hunh - that would seem to be a pretty significant issue.
How do people deal with that - are they just more popular outdoors in arid climates?
Only used in shelters? Something else?
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