FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

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Manveruon
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FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Manveruon »

Okay, so I’ve been doing this hobby in one form or another for like a dozen years now, but one of the things I have avoided for a long long time is actually fleshing out a persona. I started by focusing more on my kit and accoutrements, and told myself eventually I’d get around to figuring out exactly *who I am* in this universe, but in the end, I never really did. So! No time like the present, right?

I figure this is going to be a work in progress for a while, so I’d love to get some input from the community to see what everyone thinks, and maybe mine for some ideas/inspiration. Right now I’m just sort of in the brainstorming stages.

So with that in mind, here’s where my head is at right now:

First and foremost, I know I want to aim for an Arnorian Dúnadan Ranger impression. Not really interested in the Gondorian/Ithilien Rangers at the moment. I also know I want certain aspects of my persona to be grounded in my own life and experiences so as to make it a little more real and relatable. For instance, I certainly want my persona to be active in and around the Misty Mountains, since I live in Colorado and I do most of my ranging in and around the Rockies.

Obviously I will likely have to fudge certain other aspects a little. I am, after all, NOT actually a Ranger of Middle-earth, so my own real-world skills such as hunting, tracking, foraging, combat, reconnaissance, etc. are not really what they would be if I actually lived in Tolkien’s universe. But I also think having an established story and character in mind might help me focus on honing my specific skills so that they might match my persona’s better in reality.

So right now there are a few things I figure I need to establish right off the bat:

- Name
I like the idea Greg and some other folks have put forward of having several names I am known by, including an Elvish name, a Breeish nickname, etc. Manveruon was a very hasty and badly done translation of my own name (Michael) into Sindarin that I attempted when I was a teenager, and it just kind of stuck for lack of anything better. I think I would like to come up with something a little more appropriate, but it also needs to feel natural. It needs to feel like my name.
I thought this was a really interesting take on translating the name Michael into Elvish: https://realelvish.net/2021/05/31/michael-in-elvish/
Basically, it says the name Michael can’t really be translated into any known form of Elvish, because it is technically a a rhetorical question (“Who is like unto God?” With the implication being “No one”), and Elvish names just… aren’t made like that. But it does offer some alternative suggestions, and I kind of like the idea of using some form of “Servant of Eru” or “Servant of the Vala,” because that seems to coincide relatively well with the concept of the name Michael (I certainly like it better than anything that translates to “God-like,” because that’s honestly the total opposite of what the name actually means).
But beyond the Elvish name, I’d love to consider maybe a Breeish name (see below for the background I have in mind, but like maybe his Dúnadan mother named him something in Elvish, but his Breeish father gave him a more “mundane” Breeish name), and then probably some kind of nickname as well - something along the lines of “Strider” that the folks of Bree might call him as a descriptive nickname.

- Background
The more I think about it the more inclined I am to make my persona’s background somewhat mixed. I was thinking maybe a Dúnadan mother of mixed descent and a Breeish father? I’m of pretty average height but not exactly tall (5’10” if I’m really really lucky :lol: ), I tend to wear a beard, and I have a fairly swarthy complexion - all of which are characteristic of Bree men, but not so much of the Numenoreans/Dúnedain. I figure maybe a bit more than half of his ancestry is from the Breelands, and the rest is from Numenor, but his father died when he was young, and his mother raised him amongst her people.
I also know that I am a bit of a Hobbit at heart - I like my creature comforts, and I have a love for food, drink, and music. So I was thinking perhaps that he might be extremely fond of Hobbits in particular, and have many halfling friends in and around Bree - such that perhaps his fellow Rangers half suspect him of being part Hobbit himself! :lol:
Perhaps he dreams one day of settling down somewhere in Bree or even near the borders of the Shire and living a quiet life among the locals?
I don’t want to create a terribly “exceptional” backstory that starts to veer into the fantastical - I believe in aiming for a common impression - but I also want to address certain habits and physical traits, and I think this might accomplish that? Any thoughts here?

- Location
As mentioned, I live near Denver, CO, and I do most of my ranging in and around the Rockies. In my head, I guess I have sort of always thought of my “range” as being in and around the lands on the WESTERN slopes of the Misty Mountains, near Rivendell perhaps - but the fact is, I am actually situated on the EASTERN slopes of the Rockies - which, if I’m looking for parallels in Middle-earth, would be on the opposite side of the Misty Mountains, more towards the lands of the Beornings. Does it even make sense for Rangers to be that far East? I feel like Tolkien really intended for them to be based to the west of the mountains and not really cross over them much unless in great need, like Halbarad and the Grey Company. Should I just continue pretending I’m on the other side of the mountains? What would you do?

- Time Period
I’m kind of inclined to aim for an early-4th-Age period rather than 3rd-Age. I feel like there is a ton of unexplored potential in that period, with the kingdoms of north and south reunited under Elessar. It would also be fun to incorporate into our own local group and outings here, since a lot of our participants play as Hobbits and such, which might be more inclined to travel and mingle since the defeat of Sauron. Seems like maybe the Rangers might have also expanded their range in that time period too, which could potentially eliminate the location problems.

Anyway, that’s all the brainstorming I’ve done so far, but I would love to hear all of your takes on it and get some feedback about what you think might be best! It’s been much too long, and I’m excited about finally finding out who I really am :lol:
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Taylor Steiner »

Awesome!
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Greg »

Wonderful read through. Looking forward to seeing this develop!
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Udwin »

I definitely hear you on the 'real-life surroundings don't track 1:1 to Middle-earth' conundrum... my family's farm where I grew up is right on the Ohio, therefore my Beorning and Bucklander personas are located on their rivers...but the Ohio makes a big loop and actually is running south to north where I'm from. I say fudge it and just stay on the west side of the Misties. Or if you want to be on the east side, to stay out of Beorning country, go further north (Gundabad, Framsburg areas) and say you've been sent to root out any relict groups of Angmar-aligned hillmen or orcs.

As for parentage, the way you've got it now (Bree father, Dunedain mother) I guess the question would be: how did they meet? Did Bree father go east on the road for some reason and run into the Rangers? Would he have had to go all the way down into the Angle? I feel the Bree-folk are even bigger homebodies than the average Shire-hobbits. On the other hand, if you do go with Dunedain mother, are we suggesting that there are female Rangers who leave the homefires in the Angle and go ranging? How likely is it for her to wind up in Bree? For a Ranger in the Angle, if there is a dire need for supplies/medical help etc, would it not make more sense to try and contact Rivendell?
Personally, if the combination is Ranger father + Breeish mother, it feels less forced and raises fewer questions to me.
You could simplify even further and skip the Bree element, and draw your non-ranger parentage from the (presumably non-Dunedain) shepherds local to the trollshaws.

Just some ideas....Very interested to see where you take this, Manv!
Personae: Aistan son of Ansteig, common Beorning of Wilderland; Tungo Brandybuck, Eastfarthing Bounder, 3018 TA; a native Man of the Greyflood, c.850 SA
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Eofor »

Manveruon wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:44 pm - Time Period
I’m kind of inclined to aim for an early-4th-Age period rather than 3rd-Age. I feel like there is a ton of unexplored potential in that period, with the kingdoms of north and south reunited under Elessar. It would also be fun to incorporate into our own local group and outings here, since a lot of our participants play as Hobbits and such, which might be more inclined to travel and mingle since the defeat of Sauron. Seems like maybe the Rangers might have also expanded their range in that time period too, which could potentially eliminate the location problems.
Just some thoughts

I'd definitely recommend working on a timeline first as it can help a lot in figuring out the other parts that you're mulling over.

First figure out how old you wish to be and then what period you most want to be active in the field during the 4th age. Is it Fourth Age 20-30 once the kingdom in the north has been reestablished? Or something closer to the start as one of the Rangers sent back North to help clear the roads and bring back the rule of the King?
Once you have that in mind you can then backtrack to find a birth date (and if so inclined, fast forward to find an expiry date!) You will also have a clearer idea of what is happening in the kingdoms at that time and what your role may be.

If the roads are safe it may very well be that frontier country has been pushed back to the Misty Mountains and that is where the rangers now patrol, keeping the passes clear for trade from the Eastern Kingdoms into Arnor, especially if you go late enough into the Fourth Age when Rivendell would be abandoned so there is another flank opened to defend.

Udwin wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:21 pm Personally, if the combination is Ranger father + Breeish mother, it feels less forced and raises fewer questions to me.
Couldn't agree more, and I could add that it is far more likely for a Ranger to be wandering about and stumbling across a town girl than the other way around. In fact given the slow population decline amongst the Dúnedain it's highly likely that a man may need to actively seek elsewhere for a wife if there were no likely prospects at home.
On that note I really like this angle
Udwin wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:21 pm You could simplify even further and skip the Bree element, and draw your non-ranger parentage from the (presumably non-Dunedain) shepherds local to the trollshaws.
Again it seems more probable of an occurrence to have happened. The Trollshaws are closer to the Misty Mountains and one can easily see the tall mysterious Ranger catching the eye of a farm girl, or just as easily him coming across her at work and being struck by her beauty. Perhaps he then starts going out of his way to pass the homestead on his travels, bringing game to supplement their supplies, helping hunt the wolves that are always a plague in that part of the world.

In that way he could overcome the prejudice that a lot of the small town folk seem to have toward the Rangers and outside folk.
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Cimrandir »

Good to see someone else is also working on their persona. After Eofor so graciously linked my persona thread as an example to follow, I've been working on an update/overhaul follow-up to share my current line of thinking as well.

So first, the name. If you're sticking with the attempted translation of Michael into Elvish, the only one of the proposed translations that pops out at me is Balamyr. For me, it rolls off the tongue fairly easily and has a certain "knightly" tone to it.

Otherwise, I would suggest compiling a list of descriptive words that hold some meaning to either you or your persona and then seeking out some of the Parf Edhellen scholars to help in translating it as I did. My own Elvish name is translated as "Edge-Wanderer." Edge as in "Edge of the Wild/Frontier" as I study frontier archaeology and Ranger's are noted as wanderers. It perfectly suits both me and my persona as we're both known for leaving the beaten path to explore the far reaches of society.

What I do not have yet is a "common" name for use in Bree. I like the process Greg used for his.
Tirathon, being a mouthful, still irks me. Tirathon, being the best approximation for my real-world given name, still is the best fit that I have.

SO.

I've been thinking.

Aragorn never revealed his true name to the majority of the folk he encountered. "'Strider' I am to one fat man who lives within a day's march of foes that would freeze his heart, or lay his little town in ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly." He was given a name as a frequent flyer at the Pony who wouldn't provide them with anything else to go on. Similarly in other historical fiction, characters with a limited understanding of a protagonist have been known to give nicknames or mispronounce names due to cultural differences.

Take The 13th Warrior, for example. In the film, Banderas' character, Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan, is attempting to introduce himself to someone who doesn't speak the same language. In his culture, names are largely used to tell who your father is, and who his father is, ad infinitum. He says "My name is Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan, Ibn another guy, Ibn still someone else, Ibn again..." (I'm paraphrasing, can you tell?). The person he is addressing only hears him saying "Ibn" over and over, and latches onto that, calling him "Eabin" for the remainder of their time together.

Fast-forward to Middle-earth (or rewind, maybe?). Now, I don't have a degree in linguistics, but my impression of Bree is that multi-linguals and geniuses don't make up the bulk of the population. Definitely not a slew of Elvish-speaking high-educated types.

SO.

If one were to come in and give the innkeeper a name to go off of (not Tirathon, since that'd be a bit personal and might need to remain unknown) like a benign surname such as Taurandir (which can't really be traced to anything or anyone), it'd be a mouthful and a half for old Barliman to wrap his tongue around. This line of thinking (and what was done with Strider) suggests to me that local accents and lack of knowledge of elvish could result in a simplified, truncated, and somewhat mispronounced form of the word, and a 'nickname' as a result.

Taurandir, pronounced (I believe) TAO-ran-DEER, could be shortened to Tauran, and then simplified from the formal pronunciation to a more phonetically friendly TOW-rin or TOW-run. This gives my persona an extra authentic bent, in that he could be counted among the number of "mysterious wanderers" around Bree who frequent the inn enough to have been given a name for familiarity, and would lends me more to fit into the description we have that Rangers would be willing to share a "rare tale" when I'm of a mind to. Familiarity is an important and oft-overlooked part of that passage, I think. Secret doesn't necessarily mean unknown, and we're given that permission right from the professor's own hand here.

Tauran. Much more palatable.
And Udwin's follow-up seals the deal for me.
[...]they'd probably spell it Towrin anyhow. Especially spelled like that, it really does sound like Sindarin run through a Celtic sieve, as it Should be!

Towrin the Ranger definitely seems like something the Professor would have written. Just some food for thought.

Second, the background. I really like your proposal of a Bree-Dúnedain especially considering the variety of your Misty Mountain group. I think a Dúnedain father/Breeish mother would make the most sense but I must note that it seems the Professor might have considered there to be women Rangers at some point. From Nature of Middle-earth in a section on the name of Gilrain that was omitted from Unfinished Tales.
More likely it was her true name, since it had become a name given to women of her people, the remnants of the Númenóreans of the North Kingdom of unmingled blood. The women of the Eldar were accustomed to wear such tressures; but among other peoples they were used only by women of high rank among the "Rangers", descendants of Elros, as they claimed.
One could argue that Ranger could just be short-hand for Dúnedain but given the Professor's precision in words, I'd say there's a fair case for women Rangers. My two cents only of course.

Would it be common enough to fit your desire for commonness? That's a question only you can answer.

Also, my only real suggestion is to maybe have your parent come from Combe instead of Bree. For no other reason that it would be neat to see something slightly different. Combe is noted to have a population of Hobbits as well which would fit quite nicely with your Hobbitness. Perhaps your formative years were spent in Combe instead of the Wild before leaving to learn the ways of Rangers thus explaining a not-too-advanced knowledge of the aforementioned "hunting, tracking, foraging, combat, reconnaissance" and the affinity for the "creature comforts, and a love for food, drink, and music"? No shame there by the by. I’m also sadly lacking in those skills.

Third, location. Obviously the only real solution here is to pack up and move across the state to the other side of the Rockies. Just kidding. I agree with Udwin that it's best just to fudge it. Here in Texas, I would be either in Mordor or Ithilien (probably Mordor to be honest) and neither has any appeal to me. So I make-believe even harder and wait for winter to play in Arnor.

As far as time-period goes, when I first built my persona, I also went for an early Fourth Age time period. Your reasoning for Fourth Age is sound and like the background question, I think it works really well for the variety of your group. The only reason I backed off into the Third Age is because most of the writing about material culture is from that period and despite this being fantasy, I just can't help myself from sticking close to the bulk of the sources. I think I'd have to make up too much for Fourth Age (as though there's loads of evidence for Third Age Dúnedain anyway haha.)

And if you do go Fourth Age, I definitely second Eofor's suggestions as to the questions you should ask yourself. Some good brain-food there.
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Manveruon »

Great thoughts here folks, thanks!

In terms of parentage, I concede that a Dúnadan father and a non-Dúnadan mother does seem to make more sense at first glance, and that had absolutely occurred to me, but I had a few specific reasons for leaning toward the opposite.
Udwin wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:21 pm …if you do go with Dunedain mother, are we suggesting that there are female Rangers who leave the homefires in the Angle and go ranging? How likely is it for her to wind up in Bree? For a Ranger in the Angle, if there is a dire need for supplies/medical help etc, would it not make more sense to try and contact Rivendell?
Truth be told, although there were certainly a fair few warrior women in Tolkien’s world (Eowyn of course being a notable example in LotR, but a number of others crop up in the Silmarillion) I don’t think he necessarily would have suggested the existence of many or possibly any female Rangers - but I don’t really know for sure, and I also don’t mind taking a slightly more modern view of the distribution of labor amongst the Dúnedain. Although Cimrandir’s thoughts here are absolutely fascinating to me:
Cimrandir wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:26 am Second, the background. I really like your proposal of a Bree-Dúnedain especially considering the variety of your Misty Mountain group. I think a Dúnedain father/Breeish mother would make the most sense but I must note that it seems the Professor might have considered there to be women Rangers at some point. From Nature of Middle-earth in a section on the name of Gilrain that was omitted from Unfinished Tales.
More likely it was her true name, since it had become a name given to women of her people, the remnants of the Númenóreans of the North Kingdom of unmingled blood. The women of the Eldar were accustomed to wear such tressures; but among other peoples they were used only by women of high rank among the "Rangers", descendants of Elros, as they claimed.
One could argue that Ranger could just be short-hand for Dúnedain but given the Professor's precision in words, I'd say there's a fair case for women Rangers. My two cents only of course.
So yeah… maybe? Very cool stuff here! Even so, I confess that’s not necessarily what I had in mind.

A big part of why I have been leaning towards a Dúnadan mother and a non-Dúnadan father is my own personal history. I was raised primarily by my mother, and I’ve never really had much of a relationship with my father, so a situation like that feels easier to relate to for me. If my persona was raised by his mother, as I was, and eventually grew up to become a Ranger, it would make sense that SHE was the Dúnadan, and not his father, because otherwise he likely would have been raised away from Dúnedain culture and not taken up ranging.

In order to accommodate this, I had considered the possibility that perhaps his father was some kind of trader or merchant, and that he may have been attacked on the road going to or from Bree, at which time he was badly wounded, but ultimately rescued by Rangers, who brought him back to a smallish nearby settlement to patch him up. Perhaps my character’s mother was tending to his wounds, and ultimately fell for him. In the end though, that might read a little too much like a tropey fan-fic, so I don’t know. Again, I do admit that it would make more sense for his father to be the Ranger and his mother to be a townswoman somewhere, but at the same time, I’ve definitely seen stranger stories play out in real life sooooo… hm.

In terms of WHERE his non-Dúnadan side comes from…
Cimrandir wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:26 am Also, my only real suggestion is to maybe have your parent come from Combe instead of Bree. For no other reason that it would be neat to see something slightly different. Combe is noted to have a population of Hobbits as well which would fit quite nicely with your Hobbitness. Perhaps your formative years were spent in Combe instead of the Wild before leaving to learn the ways of Rangers thus explaining a not-too-advanced knowledge of the aforementioned "hunting, tracking, foraging, combat, reconnaissance" and the affinity for the "creature comforts, and a love for food, drink, and music"? No shame there by the by. I’m also sadly lacking in those skills.
Honestly, I love this! Very much along the lines of what I was thinking! I had definitely considered trying to aim for somewhere OTHER than Bree-proper, mainly because it does seem a bit cliché at this point, and Combe would be a great alternative. Mostly I have been using “Bree” to mean the Breelands in general, rather than specifically the village of Bree itself. I’d definitely be open to other towns in the area. And as you have mentioned, the main reasons I gravitate towards the Breelands, as opposed to elsewhere in or around Eriador, are the ones I mentioned above regarding my stature, complexion, and general affinity for rather Hobbit-ish cultural pursuits. I like the idea that he may have taken quite a liking to the Hobbits of the Breelands, and even the few he may have met from the Shire, and has picked up some of their “bad habits” over th years. Otherwise, my general swarthiness and not-prodigious height would also coincide with the Breelands pretty closely. I’m not saying I’m necessarily 100% tied down to this, but just that there was a certain logic behind it to me. Even so, I do rather like the idea of one parent being from the farms around the Trollshaws, because there are a number of areas near my own home that remind me a great deal of the Trollshaws.
Udwin wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:21 pm I definitely hear you on the 'real-life surroundings don't track 1:1 to Middle-earth' conundrum... my family's farm where I grew up is right on the Ohio, therefore my Beorning and Bucklander personas are located on their rivers...but the Ohio makes a big loop and actually is running south to north where I'm from. I say fudge it and just stay on the west side of the Misties. Or if you want to be on the east side, to stay out of Beorning country, go further north (Gundabad, Framsburg areas) and say you've been sent to root out any relict groups of Angmar-aligned hillmen or orcs.
Yeah, that’s kind of where my head is at too, I just can’t quite decide which route to take. I do think that if I aim for an early 4th-Age persona I could justify placing myself East of the Misty Mountains, as Eofor mentions here:
Eofor wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:35 am If the roads are safe it may very well be that frontier country has been pushed back to the Misty Mountains and that is where the rangers now patrol, keeping the passes clear for trade from the Eastern Kingdoms into Arnor, especially if you go late enough into the Fourth Age when Rivendell would be abandoned so there is another flank opened to defend.
But at the same time I feel like Eriador is just so quintessential to the whole “Ranger” idea for me that I don’t like the idea of abandoning it, so I may just say screw it and continue to pretend I’m on the other side of the mountains, with north and south inverted.
Cimrandir wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:26 am So first, the name. If you're sticking with the attempted translation of Michael into Elvish, the only one of the proposed translations that pops out at me is Balamyr. For me, it rolls off the tongue fairly easily and has a certain "knightly" tone to it.
Yeah, I actually quite like that one as well. It also sounds superficially a bit like Boromir, and it really rolls off the tongue. I’m extremely partial to it, as far as those names go. I also quite like the sound of “Valamyr,” but I feel like they changed the “V” to a “B” on purpose, I just don’t know specifically what that purpose might be.
Cimrandir wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:26 am What I do not have yet is a "common" name for use in Bree. I like the process Greg used for his.
Tirathon, being a mouthful, still irks me. Tirathon, being the best approximation for my real-world given name, still is the best fit that I have.

SO.

I've been thinking.

Aragorn never revealed his true name to the majority of the folk he encountered. "'Strider' I am to one fat man who lives within a day's march of foes that would freeze his heart, or lay his little town in ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly." He was given a name as a frequent flyer at the Pony who wouldn't provide them with anything else to go on. Similarly in other historical fiction, characters with a limited understanding of a protagonist have been known to give nicknames or mispronounce names due to cultural differences.

Take The 13th Warrior, for example. In the film, Banderas' character, Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan, is attempting to introduce himself to someone who doesn't speak the same language. In his culture, names are largely used to tell who your father is, and who his father is, ad infinitum. He says "My name is Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan, Ibn another guy, Ibn still someone else, Ibn again..." (I'm paraphrasing, can you tell?). The person he is addressing only hears him saying "Ibn" over and over, and latches onto that, calling him "Eabin" for the remainder of their time together.

Fast-forward to Middle-earth (or rewind, maybe?). Now, I don't have a degree in linguistics, but my impression of Bree is that multi-linguals and geniuses don't make up the bulk of the population. Definitely not a slew of Elvish-speaking high-educated types.

SO.

If one were to come in and give the innkeeper a name to go off of (not Tirathon, since that'd be a bit personal and might need to remain unknown) like a benign surname such as Taurandir (which can't really be traced to anything or anyone), it'd be a mouthful and a half for old Barliman to wrap his tongue around. This line of thinking (and what was done with Strider) suggests to me that local accents and lack of knowledge of elvish could result in a simplified, truncated, and somewhat mispronounced form of the word, and a 'nickname' as a result.

Taurandir, pronounced (I believe) TAO-ran-DEER, could be shortened to Tauran, and then simplified from the formal pronunciation to a more phonetically friendly TOW-rin or TOW-run. This gives my persona an extra authentic bent, in that he could be counted among the number of "mysterious wanderers" around Bree who frequent the inn enough to have been given a name for familiarity, and would lends me more to fit into the description we have that Rangers would be willing to share a "rare tale" when I'm of a mind to. Familiarity is an important and oft-overlooked part of that passage, I think. Secret doesn't necessarily mean unknown, and we're given that permission right from the professor's own hand here.

Tauran. Much more palatable.
And Udwin's follow-up seals the deal for me.
[...]they'd probably spell it Towrin anyhow. Especially spelled like that, it really does sound like Sindarin run through a Celtic sieve, as it Should be!

Towrin the Ranger definitely seems like something the Professor would have written. Just some food for thought.
Yeah, this is very much the kind of thing I would like to work up in terms of a nom-de-guerre of sorts. And again, I thought it might be interesting to have one parent name him something Elvish, the other to name him something in Westron, and then perhaps for him to have yet another descriptive nickname as well. I’m very fond of the multiple-names thing.


Anyway, yeah, good stuff here, thanks again folks! There was a lot to cover in your replies, so I may have missed some of it, but I tried to address as much as I could.
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Cimrandir »

Manveruon wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:13 amA big part of why I have been leaning towards a Dúnadan mother and a non-Dúnadan father is my own personal history. I was raised primarily by my mother, and I’ve never really had much of a relationship with my father, so a situation like that feels easier to relate to for me. If my persona was raised by his mother, as I was, and eventually grew up to become a Ranger, it would make sense that SHE was the Dúnadan, and not his father, because otherwise he likely would have been raised away from Dúnedain culture and not taken up ranging.

In order to accommodate this, I had considered the possibility that perhaps his father was some kind of trader or merchant, and that he may have been attacked on the road going to or from Bree, at which time he was badly wounded, but ultimately rescued by Rangers, who brought him back to a smallish nearby settlement to patch him up. Perhaps my character’s mother was tending to his wounds, and ultimately fell for him. In the end though, that might read a little too much like a tropey fan-fic, so I don’t know. Again, I do admit that it would make more sense for his father to be the Ranger and his mother to be a townswoman somewhere, but at the same time, I’ve definitely seen stranger stories play out in real life sooooo… hm.

Honestly, I think it's great that you are trying to incorporate your own personality into your persona. While a Dúnedain father and Bree-land mother would seem to make the most sense within the corpus of the literature, I see zero reason to not try to stretch your creativity a little and make it personal to you.

My first thought is this but reversed -
Eofor wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:35 amOn that note I really like this angle
Udwin wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:21 pm You could simplify even further and skip the Bree element, and draw your non-ranger parentage from the (presumably non-Dunedain) shepherds local to the trollshaws.
Again it seems more probable of an occurrence to have happened. The Trollshaws are closer to the Misty Mountains and one can easily see the tall mysterious Ranger catching the eye of a farm girl, or just as easily him coming across her at work and being struck by her beauty. Perhaps he then starts going out of his way to pass the homestead on his travels, bringing game to supplement their supplies, helping hunt the wolves that are always a plague in that part of the world.

In that way he could overcome the prejudice that a lot of the small town folk seem to have toward the Rangers and outside folk.
Dúnedain and the Rangers have no monopoly on heroics. Even the smallest person can make the biggest difference in Middle-earth. I think it's just as possible a traveling craftsman or trader could perform much as Eofor's Ranger. Dúnedain are not all Rangers so I'm quite sure there's probably isolated farms and settlements with the frontiersy vibe much of Eriador has and who's to say that a traveling Bree-man couldn't catch the eye of a Ranger's daughter?

The question would be why the Ranger would give his consent for his Dúnedain daughter to marry an outsider? While some of the whole "pure of blood" plot points can be seen as a little ... off in modern times, it is true that they would most likely want to keep it within the culture. Some possible explanations might be that much like Eofor's idea, he wins over the heart and mind of the Dúnedain with his acts of service and courage. Perhaps he doesn't and there's a dramatic elopement and you're whisked away to be raised in the Bree-lands only to return as a prodigal son as you grow older and want to seek out the truth of your heritage. That last one might also be a little "fan-fictiony" for you but it's an idea.

All that to say, don't give up yet! I like that you're acknowledging your persona's past and seeking a "common" portrayal. I'm excited to see what you come up with!
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Iodo »

sorry I neglected to comment on this, I never had time to read it, but this is all amazing stuff and well thought out, and I just love the idea of other rangers theorizing that you are part hobbit :P
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Aragorn: It's the beards.
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Manveruon »

So there’s a lot of ground still to cover here, but I’m popping back in to this thread while I’m remembering to just mention that I’m currently leaning towards either of two names: Valandur or Balamyr.
They both technically should mean the same thing: Servant of the Valar. However, Valandur is Quenya, whereas Balamyr is Sindarin. I believe I read somewhere that Sindarin names are generally more common in the 3rd Age than Quenya names (mostly due to Quenya being a quite outdated language by that point), so that means Valandur might be considered rather old-fashioned - HOWEVER, it was actually the name of a Dúnedain king of Arnor early in the Third Age, so in that regard it would absolutely make sense for a Ranger of the late Third Age/early Fourth Age to be named for him. On the other hand, Balamyr is Sindarin, which would be considerably more contemporary for my time period - and I honestly really like the way it sounds (reminds me a bit of “Boromir” when spoken aloud). Plus, as far as I can tell from my various internet searches, there is no precedent for any character in Tolkien’s legendarium being named that already, which is certainly nice if I don’t want to ever confuse anyone about who I’m actually portraying.

So yeah, just gotta decide on one of those I think.
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by redhandfilms »

Manveruon wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:44 pm Okay, so I’ve been doing this hobby in one form or another for like a dozen years now, but one of the things I have avoided for a long long time is actually fleshing out a persona.
This gives me comfort. I've only been doing this a few months. I'm busy enough getting gear together, good to know I don't need to stress about a persona for a while. haha! :)
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Cimrandir »

I'm still a fan of Balamyr. Seems very knightly and Arthurian which seems appropriate. Gawain, Percival, Galahad, Tristan, and Balamyr. Rolls right off the tongue.
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Udwin »

The spelling is throwing me off, for some reason the y makes it look more Swarzy and less Sindarin to my eyes. Would spelling it 'Balamir' alter the meaning any? Maybe its the Bala- root, I can't recall anyone with that as the first element of their name...could 'Valamir' be appropriate?
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Manveruon »

Okay, I’ve been putting a fair deal of thought into the name situation, and I think I am actually leaning in a totally different direction than when I last posted. Rather than trying to find a name that has a similar MEANING to my own, I have started thinking of names that FEEL more like my own, and roll off the tongue better - things that I could conceivably answer to if shouted at me.

And hey, wouldn’t you know it, looking around a bit online I’ve discovered some very interesting things! For instance, yes indeed, as some have pointed out over in the “Breelander Names” thread (viewtopic.php?p=54098#p54098), some form of a word that is very *similar* to Michael does exist in Tolkien’s “translation” of Middle-earth names, as others have mentioned, because it is used in the name Michel Delving. It appears that Tolkien used the word Michel/Micel/Mickel (with a short “i” sound, it must be said) on multiple occasions, in its Anglo-Saxon form, meaning “great,” or “large.” I actually think this could be a fun concept, if possibly the Hobbits of Bree themselves gave him this nickname - as in: “oh, him? The Big Fellow? He’s really just a big Hobbit at heart! That’s why we call him Mickel!” And then, it may indeed have stuck with his Dúnedain companions out of irony (i.e. “he is a rather short fellow by our Numenorean standards, so we call him what the halflings call him: ‘Mickel,’ as in ‘great’ or ‘big’ because LOL, have you seen him?”). I am also considering an Elvish nickname that the Dúnedain might have given him: “Perianseron,” which means halfling-friend, or halfling-lover (but to the unaccustomed ear sounds really quite beautiful, I think).

I’ve also been toying with some other descriptive names that feel like they might fit, such as “Maeron,” which means “artist” or “poet.” I’m not much of a poet, but I do love to sing, and I obviously enjoy visual art very much, so I think it could work - and I appreciate that it’s also an “M” name, which I have decided I’m rather set on.

SO. Where does that leave me? Well perhaps the name his parents gave him was Maeron, as a fitting Elvish name for a Dúnadan - but these days he mostly goes by Mickel - and if you really want a full-on title, you could call him Mickel Maeron Perianseron - or, Maeron the Large, Halfling-Friend. (The fully Sindarin version of that would likely be Maerondaer Perianseron - “daer” being the Sindarin descriptor for “large” or “great.”)

Thoughts?


*EDIT* I have also discovered that apparently “Maeron” is a real-world Gaelic name meaning “bitter,” which is somehow EVEN BETTER suited to my actual real-world personality . :lol:
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Re: FINALLY Fleshing Out a Persona

Post by Udwin »

I don't know how different pronunciation would be, but it's probably a safe bet that Maeron would sound fairly close to Mairon....which was the name (Quenya) of the Maia who would become....Sauron.
So that's probably out.
However, Mickel the Ranger works on pretty much every level, so go for it!
Personae: Aistan son of Ansteig, common Beorning of Wilderland; Tungo Brandybuck, Eastfarthing Bounder, 3018 TA; a native Man of the Greyflood, c.850 SA
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