Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

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deadextra
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by deadextra »

Ringulf wrote:I felt that Bilbo's mithril shirt was of rings and not the mesh that the movies made it out to be but I guess they had to make it spiffy somehow to show the difference
Hey mate, it was a shirt of rings in the films. http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/sc ... 1_orig.JPG
Just about the size of rings in shark suits though.
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Manveruon »

Ringulf wrote:I knew that at different times in history and literature the Corslet had many meanings, I felt that Bilbo's mithril shirt was of rings and not the mesh that the movies made it out to be but I guess they had to make it spiffy somehow to show the difference..
Okay, so just to clarify, when you say "rings not mesh," what is your definition of the difference between those two? Because from what I understand, the movie mithril shirt was indeed made of rings - just really, really tiny rings. I believe somewhere they said that it's the same stuff shark divers wear for protection. And in the book Tolkien described it thus: "He unwound several folds of old cloth, and held up a small shirt of mail. It was close-woven of many rings, as supple almost as linen, cold as ice, and harder than steel. It shone like moonlit silver, and was studded with white gems." So based on that description, the movie shirt actually seems like one of the more accurate depictions of armor, as translated from the books.

And Caedmon: That thing looks pretty awesome! One thing though: wouldn't the maille get caught in the beards? Seems like that could get painful, unless it had some kind of cloth or hide underside.
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Manveruon »

Heh, Deadextra beat me to it.
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by caedmon »

Manveruon wrote: And Caedmon: That thing looks pretty awesome! One thing though: wouldn't the maille get caught in the beards? Seems like that could get painful, unless it had some kind of cloth or hide underside.

Wow, good point. My beard stays pretty close cropped, so I hadn't thought about it.
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Ringulf »

Mine is long enough to get caught and pinched or pulled now and then and maile tends to do that rather quickly! It smarts but we being the rough tough hard to buff Dwarven nasty fellows we only tear, just one mind you, from the left eye, but also being rather secure with such gushing emotion we never wipe it away but let it role down and get lost in the tangled birds nest that started the whole problen our lovely beard!!!

(Why you rarely see chanmaile used that is not backed unless you are watching a movie.)

And yes the shark stuff is rings (I suppose, though they are extremely tiny) I suppose that is to show the extreme skill of the makers and superior protection...Yada Yada. In reality making that out of Mithral (a very strong metal that would have been difficult to bend I would think) that stuff would have taken a very strong but dextrous person many, many hours/days/weeks to make. so I guess Gandalf was right, it's value would have been greater than the whole shire!
Of course he could have just picked it up at the Umbar Dive Shop knocked off by those infernal machines on the cheap! :wink:
I have looked into that and have been tempted as with the right embelishment in the right metal it could be rather interesting, but divers don't call it maile they call it mesh which is why I reverted to the term.
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Ringulf »

Caedmon Posted:

Image

OMG! You just put together the same styles that I did for my Aribjorn Helmet, I even have the "Avon-Beard" if you want to call it that! Mine was based on the Valsgauard Spangenhelm but put the openwork in due to the lightness and airflow. and then I took styling cues from the Ironbreaker class armor from Warhammer To give it the dwarven spin and came up with almost exactly what you did! I took the gold, ring mail avonbeard off for these pictures but you can see the rest.

Image
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Jon »

I was just reading a part of the Two Towers again, which made me come back to this subject.

So, in 'The King of the Golden Hall' chapter, it says that gimli needed no maille, because he already had a 'short corslet'

Ok so we've had the long discussion about it, wondering what it could mean, but just a few paragraphs on:
''Then the king sat upon a seat before his doors, and Eowyn knelt before him and received from him a sword and a fair corslet''

And just a few lines on:
''Alone Eowyn stood [...] she was clad now in mail and shone like silver in the sun

Obvious conclusion: by corslet, Tolkien means maille.

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Ringulf
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Ringulf »

You may very well be correct as it is used interchangeably throughout history and literature. I has been a great excersise to dig into the different meanings but in the phrase:

"So, in 'The King of the Golden Hall' chapter, it says that gimli needed no maille, because he already had a 'short corslet"

I think Tolkien is just saying that he needn't draw upon the armories reserves, as did the others, because he had his own. :wink:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by BrianGrubbs »

Ringulf wrote:You may very well be correct as it is used interchangeably throughout history and literature. I has been a great excersise to dig into the different meanings but in the phrase:

"So, in 'The King of the Golden Hall' chapter, it says that gimli needed no maille, because he already had a 'short corslet"

I think Tolkien is just saying that he needn't draw upon the armories reserves, as did the others, because he had his own. :wink:

I haven't read through this entire thread yet, so forgive me if this hasn't been pointed out yet. In the chapter The Ring Goes South" it states that:
"Gimli the dwarf alone wore openly a short shirt of steel-rings, for dwarves make light of burdens."
Seems to be maile to me.

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Ringulf
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Ringulf »

Yes Brian I think this thread has gotten long enough that it is experiencing the Groundhog day effect! LOL!

So I have learned.

A Gimli wore a Corslet

B His corslete was most likely made of tiny rings

C The term "Corslet" does not always have to describe the material as being Maile depending on the time period

D It does however as a term seem to be restricted to body armor

All else in my mind is conjecture and educated guess, which has been lots of fun! :mrgreen:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Manveruon »

Nicely summed up, sir!
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Druin »

Dirhael wrote:Just briefly going back to the face masks, I think it would be more like the saxon face masks rather than the samurai ones:
Agreed! Samurai was just the first mask-incorporated helmet that came to my mind where the mask is sculpted into an actual "angry face." :)
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Ringulf »

The Russ and the Persians also used masks in combat.
I am working on a semi open facemask/visor for my heavy combat SCA helm that is based on the "Odin Mask". (I just could not resist the knotted beard work!)
:mrgreen:
I am Ringulf the Dwarven Woodsman, I craft leather, wood, metal, and clay,
I throw axes, seaxes, and pointy sticks, And I fire my bow through the day.
Come be my ally, lift up your mead! We'll search out our foes and the Eagles we'll feed! :mrgreen:
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Re: Gimli's Corslet = Dwarven Plate Armour?

Post by Straelbora »

Ringulf wrote:The Russ and the Persians also used masks in combat.
I am working on a semi open facemask/visor for my heavy combat SCA helm that is based on the "Odin Mask". (I just could not resist the knotted beard work!)
:mrgreen:
New to the site and poking around some threads, so I just came across the photos of your armor, weapons, etc. Absolutely brilliant! I'm in awe and not a little bit jealous. Well done, sir!
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