Chinese Swordsmanship

[R.D.Metcalf]

check this site out! http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com/ I have never had the pleasure of studying the Chinese Jian but based on what I've seen a study of both HEMA and Taiji Jian would make for well rounded sword man indeed The defences outlined remind me somewhat of German longsword techniques

If I didnt live in the middle of nowhere I would attempt to find someone teaching this style. It certainly looks like a worthwhile study.

~RD~

[doghsin]

well, here is the test of this community. this weekend i spent literally hours reading YouTube responses arguing whether Asian or European martial arts were/are superior. those comments are a train wreck i cant help but ogle at.
my philosophy says to learn everything about what interests you, no matter the source. even the worst source has something to teach.

[R.D.Metcalf]

Doghsin, I absolutely agree with you. A long while back Dwight McLemore and I had conversation via PM regarding "heresy". We were having this conversation because I had some questions about his book 'The Fighting Sword' and he was very polite and informative. I'm an adherent of his Martial philosophy. If it works, do it

I hope this thread doesnt turn into Asian vs. Western sword arts as you say both have alot to offer and both are invaluable to us as individual martial students I once had the honor of getting almost two years training in Five Animal Kung Fu but I never had the opportunity to study the Jian, to my sorrow

[Eric C]

The superiority of either system shouldn't be the question really. At least not in my opinion. When I was a teenager, I took a year and a half of Goju Shorin which was a combination of Goju Ryu and Shorin Ryu, two Okinawan styles. It was taught in a very street smart manner in my opinion. I have tried to take various styles since and found that the teachers were really only interested in putting trophies in their dojo windows or making black belts and didn't seem to care what worked in the streets.

Then one day a couple of years back I got together with a guy for some western sword work. It was only one day and I have a lot to learn, but I immediately saw many similarities in the footwork. There are only so many ways the body bends and moves. There are only so many things you can do to disable/destroy your opponent, though that number is pretty large.
I think my time in Goju Shorin would be a great advantage to me if I could ever find a partner to work with in Western Martial Arts around these parts.

[Eledhwen]

I've found that western quarterstaff and Southern Staff of gung fu can be blended well. Same with much of the hand forms; sometimes one has to be a bit thoughtful about it, but on the whole I find more complimentary than not.

Siani

[mcapanelli]

Actually as someone with both western and eastern sword experience you'd be surprised how similar they are. Remember though that they developed what they did for reasons specific to their region and needs and types of weapons used. I'd like to go deeper but there's a crying baby demanding my attention. I'll leave you with this though. Even though there are only so many ways to move around a steel bar with the human body, the techniques don't cross over as readily as they'd appear to because they we're developed as a response to a specific need of the peoples whom developed them. Even though similar in outward appearance, they in fact don't cross over very well because they we're developed independent of one another and for weapons with different dynamics.

[Eric C]

I can't agree or disagree, because of lack of experience. I never worked with a sword in Goju Shorin, and have never been able to get together with anyone with the exception of the one guy for a couple of hours one day a couple of years ago.
But the similarities I saw were in stances and movements that came pretty naturally to me because of the Goju Shorin background. Because of not being accustomed to working with a sword lengthed object, I was always within the guy's range and he was constantly scoring hits because of it.

If I can get/make a waster maybe I can start working on some forms out of Clements' Medieval Swordsmanship.

[mcapanelli]

I can't agree or disagree, because of lack of experience. I never worked with a sword in Goju Shorin, and have never been able to get together with anyone with the exception of the one guy for a couple of hours one day a couple of years ago.
But the similarities I saw were in stances and movements that came pretty naturally to me because of the Goju Shorin background. Because of not being accustomed to working with a sword lengthed object, I was always within the guy's range and he was constantly scoring hits because of it.

If I can get/make a waster maybe I can start working on some forms out of Clements' Medieval Swordsmanship.

Can you fix a waster? I have a middle earth swordworks I'd give you. The cross is loose and needs to either be re-glued or better yet have a wood dowel drilled through it. Let me know. I'd only ask you pay for shipping. Also I may have offered this to you before and forgot. This time I'll be on the ball

[R.D.Metcalf]

Thanks Mike, I was hoping someone would post that had trained both


As far as blade work goes I can only speak for the Western side of things and even then not with authority on anything but the basics, but I do like to hear from different traditions. The grip used in the link is identical to how I hold a sword, only I've always called it a handshake grip, after Peter Johnson, I think, coined the phrase. but in honor of my new found bit of knowledge, I will hance forth call it the "Sword Talisman"

[Eric C]

Thanks Mike. Yeah, you offered, but I think we both forgot. Let me know what it would cost to send and I'll get the money off to you.

[Pwyll]

Not really able to add much new to what's already been said. Yes, any sword (or other weapon) system developed in a particular environment, with regard to the local culture, technology, armor, terrain, etc.

And, as has already been said, and very well, there are only so many ways for the human body to move. The stepping and body mechanics found in karate will show up again in longsword, in rapier, in ringen... Look at Talhoffer's dagger and you find things you would expect to see in Shorin Ryu. The footwork in Destreza looks much like that seen in Pa Kua, and Escrima. Meyer was not the first (or the last) to use a figure four lock, but use it he did.

If a weapon system is effective, it survives. If not, it dies out. Of course, if it survives beyond the period of its effective use, it may mutate, lose some of its effective techniques and pick up nonsense from teachers who no longer understand its proper application. This can appear in both eastern and western systems.

The true test, as Silver pointed out, is in the "market place". Nowadays, of course, this is limited to sparring, but that's a good test. That is one thing I love about ARMA, the utter willingness to test technqiues and systems, to see what works and what doesn't. And there are other groups that also apply this scientific method to martial science.

Of course, it's also possible for some of this testing to devolve into a sport form that loses much of its realism. So it's always necessary to change up and practice with different speeds, simulations and degrees of protection. More realism means less "safety". But with good care, you can get some fantastic practice.