Dunedain Star Brooch...

Mirimaran · Post by **Mirimaran** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:12 pm

Siani wrote:
My own banner has a Pine Tree with seven six pointed stars around it. Mainly because the Pine Tree has an association with New England due to its use in the Colonial's flag at the outbreak of the RevWar, but it isn't for reenactment use in any case, just my own; I like the look.

Siani

I'd love to see it!

Mirimaran · Post by **Mirimaran** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:14 pm

Faolan wrote:The emblem of Elendil and his heirs was seven five-pointed stars, each representing one of the palantÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€ Ã¢â‚¬â„¢ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Âri that Elendil brought from NÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€ Ã¢â‚¬â„¢ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Âºmenor. In Gondor they were set on a sable coat of arms, together with the White Tree, which represented any of the descendants of Nimloth that grew in Minas Ithil and, later, Minas Tirith. The device of the Kings. To this device the Kings of the line of Elendil added the Silver Crown, which was the chief mark of royalty. In Arnor a single five-pointed star became used as a device, the Elendilmir, representing the Star of Earendil. In Gondor the device including the stars and the Silver Crown fell out of general use, until the time of Elessar and the Reunited Kingdom. [6] The crown of Gondor is depicted most clearly in letter 211 of Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien.

[6] LotR Index IV: Star

But I do like the 6 and 8 pointed stars too!

"You can trust your car to the man who wears the Star. . . ."

Thanks for the info, Faolan! My question would be, would a ranger banner incorporate the Seven stars and tree and/or the single star, or just the single star and then the personal devices of the Ranger/troop/house?

Post by **Eledhwen** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:26 pm

Excellent! Thanks Faolan!

Good question Mirimaran. I think I'll steer clear of the single five pointed star if I can as I get enough ribbing from Texas friends as it is. LOL

However, the single five pointed star with a tree might be a good one, if you're from the North and not Ithilien.

I suspect a lot of this will be up to the individual unless we form a consensus on it of some sort. As I said, being Ithilien Rangers or DÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€ Ã¢â‚¬â„¢ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Âºnedain of the North could also be reason for differences.

It is an interesting subject.

Siani

Post by **Eledhwen** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:30 pm

Mirimaran: As soon as I sort out a fabric version of the banner I'll post a pic (erf, I have a lot of pics I need to post). At the moment it consists of drawings and paintings and an icon I use for MSN and LJ. It's on the line for silk painting at some point.

Siani

Mirimaran · Post by **Mirimaran** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:33 pm

Exactly Siani, I did do some sewing last night on my White Tree attempt, and wondered how a Ranger of the North would even imagine the White Tree, since it would be extremely doubtful he would have been to Gondor to see it for himself. I suppose in Rivendell there would be depictions of the Tree. We have some good craft stores in the area so I am loaded up with stuff, and have been practicing!

I am thinking that I would incorporate the stars and tree, and then the rest of our House. I do agree about the single star, I'd get more Texas Ranger comments than anything LOL Where's Woodrow Call and Gus McRae when you need them?

Mirimaran · Post by **Mirimaran** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:36 pm

Siani wrote:Mirimaran: As soon as I sort out a fabric version of the banner I'll post a pic (erf, I have a lot of pics I need to post). At the moment it consists of drawings and paintings and an icon I use for MSN and LJ. It's on the line for silk painting at some point.

Siani

Silk painting sounds interesting!

You have a good idea on consensus, Siani. If this group can come up with something that we can all agree upon, I am sure we can work that symbol into our own personal flags, banners, roadsigns, sort of "and I belong to this group as well, but being Rangers, it's a bit of a secret sign"

Post by **Eledhwen** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:46 pm

You can see the basic design on my site if you wish; www.oakstone-keep.com

Don't mind the mess there; lots of work to do when I get other stuff done. LOL

Siani

Mirimaran · Post by **Mirimaran** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:53 pm

I love that! Very cool, Ranger! And the site is fine! And, I might add, you are most cool! Druid

Gareth · Post by **Gareth** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:18 am

Steven S. · Post by **Steven S.** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:40 am

If I recall right, the devices on the gate to Moria were Dwarvish and Elvish, not those of the descendants of Numenor.

Faolan · Post by **Faolan** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:06 am

Yes, that star in the bottom half of the door is the Star of Feanor. The Crown at the top is Durin's Crown and the stars are what he saw in his refection when he gazed into the Mirrormere.

Faolan

Post by **Eledhwen** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:15 am

Yep, that design is well known. The Star of FÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™Ãƒâ€ Ã¢â‚¬â„¢ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â«anor resembles a Compass Star although it doesn't have the ring of course.

All of those, the Dwarven and Elven have 8 points, yep.

And the Numenoreans had a Five pointed star.

Interesting stuff really.

Siani

Mirimaran · Post by **Mirimaran** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:55 pm

Well, I think the important thing to remember is that if Tolkien wanted us to know the exact number of rays on the star, he would have written it down. I think he left it up to interpretation,
so I don't think anyone is exactly wrong in wanting to use 5, 7, 8 or 16 rays in their stars. I do agree, as a group, a consensus should be reached for the sake of consistency, and it gets all of us working on a project together! Bonding, yah! LOL

Post by **Eledhwen** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:43 pm

I'm keeping the six-pointed stars for my own use; I think they're very pretty, although I'm going to try making them a bit more...delicate?...in form..more Elvish I guess...just thin the arms down some.

Agree otherwise; if we do one for the Rangers as a whole, then a consensus is a good thing, whether that's the single star, some five pointed stars or what have we.

Siani

Mirimaran · Post by **Mirimaran** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:06 pm

Ditto for mine as well, but open to new ideas. I am finding that my simple original idea is getting more complicated by the minute

I understand about the Elvish influence on your stars, and that makes total sense. As the Dunedain would have had little time for art and culture ( I have the feeling that they may have resorted to an oral tradition ) perhaps they would look to Rivendell for inspiration when it came to standards and such. I am sure even their art had an air of sadness about it; the last survivors of a once proud nation, awaiting the day when the King returns and they can lay down their guardianship of the land, but I think they knew as well that with the Return of the King would mean the passing of the Age, and they along with it.

Few now left to guard the light
lost moonlit paths now turned to green
as Rangers pass into the night
never again to be seen...