Athelas

[Southwind]

I also got my start in plants from my grandmother... but it's not exactly ancestral, she learned mostly from books.

As for athelas, my theory is that it's probably similar to rosemary and/or lavender, based on these criteria:
- Long, slender leaves (which, granted, plantain also has)
- "Fresh" scent, strong enough to locate the plant in the dark (plantain lacks this)
- Used to cure headaches (lavender will do this, so I hear)
- Associated with elves (one of rosemary's folk names is "elf leaf")

On the other hand, I don't know anything about the effect of rosemary or lavender when applied as a poultice to wounds. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can comment on this?

[Arbellason]

Rosemary is mostly an inflammatory while lavender mostly soothes a wound Plantain however does both and draws out poisons something athelas was noted for.

[herbcraft]

ooh, fun topic...

first, plantain: there is more the species of plantago used interchangeably in herbal practice; commonly, two are cited: plantago major (broadleaf plantain) and plantago lanceolata (narrowleaf plantain). the former is the one commonly called "white man's footprint", the latter "englsh plantain".

however... it's not true that there wasn't plantain in north america before the europeans came over; plantago rugelii is a native and looks, to most, identical to broadleaf plantain, with the exception of differences in the flowerstalk, seeds and leafstem. The leaf stem (petiole) is the easiest to identify it with: if it's decidedly reddish purple, you've got the native rugelii.

Here's a link with compare/contrast: http://www.minnesotawildflowers.info/fl ... s-plantain

And here's a distribution map of various plantago species in the US. Bright green is good (present and abundant). Dark green indicates native species of plantago: http://bonap.org/BONAPmaps2010/Plantago.html

Plantain is indeed incredible for a slew of issues; it's a major herb I use in my herbal practice. I've treated lots of different kinds of bites... I find it very effective for mosquito bites in most people, and add ragweed or a bit of tobacco to a poultice for overstrong histamine reactions. It's been studied and shown effective in very serious bites, like that of the tissue necrotizing brown recluse: http://medherb.com/Therapeutics/Immune_ ... _Bites.htm Plantain also excels in treating puncture wounds. I tend to chew my plantain for topical use; saliva extracts it better than just crushing the leaves. Unless it's growing by the trail map sign at the park, or other places that dogs are obviously peeing.

I also regularly use plantain (in formulas, usually) for clients with oral, gastric and duodenal ulcerations, leaky gut syndrome, dry coughs or upper respiritory irritation caused or irritated by the inhalation of fine matter, throat coughs caused by upper respiratory drainage, injured or irritated eyes (as a saline eyewash), urinary irritation, especially with tissue damage (drink tea with cornsilk or couchgrass after passing kidney stones to heal the scratched to hell ureters)... I could go on. Last summer I taught an hour and half class on plantain in Wisconsin with another herbalist... we ran out of time with still lots of info to share.

athelas: this is clearly an aromatic plant, which plantain is not (I do agree plantain covers a LOT of the uses of athelas). By aromatic, I mean possessed of volatile oils, like the rosemary and lavender which were previously mentioned. Although it doesn't cover all the uses, the plant that comes closest to fitting the bill for me is monarda fistulosa, which has a ton of common names: wild oregano, sweet leaf (not stevia), wild bergamot (not the bergamot in your earl grey tea), and wild bee balm. There are related species, but none I've met are as potent as the fistulosa. Wild bee balm is an immensely useful antimicrobial, and I've used it for MRSA (the scary antibiotic resistant infections) and other serious infections. It's multisystemic (its actions aren't limited to or focused on one system) and also good for burns and fevers and a slew of other ailments.

I use over 200 plants in my practice, and among them, if I had to choose an athelas substitute, the thing that would come to my mind if a combination of plantain and monarda. That's a really good combination.

I guess you can always try and reforge broken chains of knowledge, but it's not easy.

not easy, but there are a LOT of resources available. I started studying herbs 20 years ago; it took over my life and it's become what I do. I began teaching myself out in the woods and fields, now I have the good fortune to teach herbalism here in michigan and throughout the US at various herb conferences and schools, and the collective knowledge of the herbal community in this country is just amazing. I will say this: there's a big difference between knowing about medicinal plants and knowing about herbalism. It's akin to the different between knowing about swords versus actually knowing how to wield a sword. Herbs are amazing, but to truly manifest their potential (and avoid hopefully minor mishaps) learn about the practice of herbalism as well as what the herbs do.

[Daerir]

This has got to be the least scientific, herbal remedy, health care thing to put on this thread but.....


Is it Athelas (ath-EH-LAss) or Athelas (ah-TH-hey-lis)

[Arbellason]

I've always called it the first way.

[RikJohnson]

Here in Arizona, the Indians would make a bread-like food from mesquite beans. Kinda molassasy with fiber and such so I thought this would be a good substitute.
It has no gluten so the 'bread' would be more like a bagel.

Problem is that EVERY recipe I can find says, "1 pound of flour add 2 tblsp mesquite..." which means that they are using mesquite as a flavoring and calling it mesquite bread.

I wrote to the largest local advertizer of mesquite flower and asked them for real recipies, like the indians made. they referred me to their website where they still use mesquite as flavoring.

Pity I no longer know any indians. I'd get a recipe that could me field-baked. Not athelas but as close as we could come, I would think. at least with local materials.

[Daerir]

Here in Arizona, the Indians would make a bread-like food from mesquite beans. Kinda molassasy with fiber and such so I thought this would be a good substitute.
It has no gluten so the 'bread' would be more like a bagel.

Problem is that EVERY recipe I can find says, "1 pound of flour add 2 tblsp mesquite..." which means that they are using mesquite as a flavoring and calling it mesquite bread.

I wrote to the largest local advertizer of mesquite flower and asked them for real recipies, like the indians made. they referred me to their website where they still use mesquite as flavoring.

Pity I no longer know any indians. I'd get a recipe that could me field-baked. Not athelas but as close as we could come, I would think. at least with local materials.

I'm not certain but I think you got athelas and lembas mixed up

[Stormraven]

Very informative post. Thanks so much!