MAKING FIRE

[RikJohnson]

Most of us carry a flint-&-steel with charcloth.
I have a mini-set I keep in an altoids box (I attached the lid with a hammer to deform it and disguise the thing) plus a full-size set I keep in a leather pouch. I traded some flint I smuggled into the US from England for the strikers at a Ren Faire.
I also keep a steel-can filled with cotton cloth squares from old clothes to make more char-cloth as the need arises.

And, yes, I can use the flint-&-steel. Not an expert but still...
But the act of keeping that molecular edge on the flint is a pain though I enjoy practicing the striking (hand-eye-coordination skills).

So I was thinking of going to a bow-drill set which I've neither made nor used.

in normal camping, I prefer a ferro-cerium striker (I've made and bought a couple 'period' sets) and wax-covered cotton as fire starters as i really HATE butane lighters!!!!!

So back to the bow-drill idea.

Survey now, what methods do you typically use to start a fire?
And are you happy with that method?

[ineffableone]

Survey now, what methods do you typically use to start a fire?
And are you happy with that method?

More often than not I will use ferro rod for fire starting, though yes sometimes I do use a lighter too. Just like sometimes I will use flint and steel.

I have done plenty of friction fire practice, learning to make fire with the plow method, hand drill, bow drill, pump drill, and saw method.

By far the easiest to do, but the longest set up time is the pump drill. It is great for setting up a primitive fire starter for a base camp. But the flywheel weight makes it less of a portable method. Though there are some fairly small flywheels on Native American pump drill sets that could easily have been portable. The size and weight of the flywheel is what makes the drill effective, so you really do need a decent size and weight for them. Typically smaller flywheels meant the use of a denser heavier rock for the flywheel, so it equaled out to similar weight. Most pump drills are multipurpose too, as the name implies, it is also a drill. Most were made with "interchangeable bits" not only could you change from fire making to drill, but also multi different drill sizes for different tasks.

For those who are not familiar with the pump drill method.



A while back I bought a bunch of old Yankee Drills (really cool hand tools if you don't know about them google them they are cool, the precursor to the power drill), and have been toying with the idea of seeing if I could modify a bit for that to hold a wood dowel piece for fire starting. Sort of a mix of primitive and modern tech. I haven't done it yet but I am pretty sure I could get one to make a coal if I can get a good connection of wood to metal bit.

[Manveruon]

I've heard a lot of people talk about fire drills of various kinds on here, but I've always wondered where that practice originated. Is there any European history of that kind of that fire-starting method, or is it primarily New-World?

Personally, I've got an interesting little ferro rod that's set into the side of a piece of antler, and as ferro rods do, it sparks beautifully. I've also got a beautiful fire steel in the shape of a dragon from a seller on eBay (someone on these forums - I can't remember who just now - posted about them a while back, and I just had to get one for myself), and it sparks okay when I can actually figure out the mechanics of it, but a flint and steel definitely takes more practice than I'd realized. Still, I'd prefer to use this in practical situations whenever possible, because I kind of feel like the ferro rod is cheating.

I have yet to actually start a real fire with either, unless you count the tiny one I started in my kitchen sink as a quick test, haha. I rarely get to go camping, so I haven't gotten the opportunity to really play with it and practice my skills yet. Nevertheless, I'm putting together a kit, in the eventuality of actually getting out into the woods and camping a little. At the moment my fire kit includes the flint and steel set, the ferro rod, a whole bunch of hemp fibers that I made by unraveling several lengths of small hemp rope, and some small wood shavings I procured from a gentleman doing wood carving at an SCA event. I can safely say that when I actually manage to get a spark from the fire steel onto the hemp fibers, they take light pretty darn quick (it probably helps that there's practically zero humidity here in CO, so they're dry as all get out), but beyond that, I'll have to see about starting an actual fire the next time I'm at an SCA camping event - probably the end of August.

[ineffableone]

I've heard a lot of people talk about fire drills of various kinds on here, but I've always wondered where that practice originated. Is there any European history of that kind of that fire-starting method, or is it primarily New-World?

Fire by friction is world wide and has been reinvented by people everywhere they were. Every culture has fire by friction methods somewhere in their past. Some places it is still the primary fire starting method as matches are just too rare and run out too fast.

In Europe the fire by friction history is pretty much lost due to the build up of civilization and the material for fire by friction easily decomposable in the climate of Europe. In dry climates archeology has been able to uncover ancient fire making tools, but it is a lot more difficult in wet regions to figure out what methods they might have used. There is just not much left of the stone age indigenous European knowledge, due to purges in the history books through out time from different religious and political leaders.

There is some evidence and history of friction fire in Europe but it is frustratingly little to go by. One example can be found here http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/fire.shtml (something to note from this article is the use of lenses for fire from the sun)

The Old Norse language contains evidence that the fire-drill was known and used. There are two words in Old Icelandic that specifically refer to fire-drills. The first is bragð-alr "twirling-awl", used in Iceland for making fire, and the second is bragðals-eldr, the term for a fire produced using a bragð-alr. The word bragð has a fundamental notion of "a sudden motion", but also, especially in sports, it has the sense of "a trick or strategem," and the use of a bow-and-drill to make fire is certainly a clever trick. Since friction-method fire-making equipment is generally made up of wood and fiber, which don't survive well in archaeological contexts, the language clues can be the only source of information about this technology.

Most likely ancient Europeans used one or multiples of these methods the fire plough, hand drill, or bow drill. The fire plough is the most ancient method and is literally just rubbing two sticks, though using a trough in one to channel the wood dust. It is also one of the most difficult to do as it does not concentrate the heat in one place, so it takes a lot longer to build up to a critical temperature to make a coal. Hand drill is the most common method of fire by friction used by indigenous people all over the world. If practiced it can be made to look simple and easy. However in damp and humid conditions it can be very difficult even if your skilled. Bow drill is one of the more advanced methods, and if one gets good at it the most reliable for the least amount of energy expenditure, though pump drills might give the bow drill a run for low energy use. However these were not a common fire making method, and most pump drills were used for drilling not fire making. It is likely that all 3 of these main methods were used in Europe by different tribes. The people in one area using one method another area preferring another method. Tradition and available resources often dictating what method is used. But someone who is good at hand drill, and can make a fire in 5 min using that technique, would not be impressed with a bow drill that in their inexperienced attempts to use takes 15 minutes to make fire. While similarly someone experienced with bow drill who can make fire in 5 min but with no experience with hand drill would be similarly frustrated with the other technique and find it inferior.

It is likely even after flint and steel that friction fire methods were learned and used by many. Just as today many people will bring multiple methods to make fire, matches, lighter, ferro rod. In ancient times it would not be beyond reason to have multiple methods of fire making just like we do in the present. You might loose flint and steel but if you know friction fire technique you can still have fire. I think most any Ranger in Tolkien's world would be familiar with friction fire techniques.

BTW I seriously suggest learning friction fire to everyone. There is something very profound about creating fire from friction. Using a spark from flint and steel or a ferro rod, just does not have the same feel. Flint and steel or ferro rods, it is the spark not you who creates the ember. Fire by friction it feels like you brought fire to life from nothing. While now we know the science behind it, it does not lessen the feeling that comes from creating a coal from rubbing sticks then using that coal in tinder and blowing it into a flame. It is very magical.

[ineffableone]

I have yet to actually start a real fire with either, unless you count the tiny one I started in my kitchen sink as a quick test, haha. I rarely get to go camping, so I haven't gotten the opportunity to really play with it and practice my skills yet. Nevertheless, I'm putting together a kit, in the eventuality of actually getting out into the woods and camping a little. At the moment my fire kit includes the flint and steel set, the ferro rod, a whole bunch of hemp fibers that I made by unraveling several lengths of small hemp rope, and some small wood shavings I procured from a gentleman doing wood carving at an SCA event. I can safely say that when I actually manage to get a spark from the fire steel onto the hemp fibers, they take light pretty darn quick (it probably helps that there's practically zero humidity here in CO, so they're dry as all get out), but beyond that, I'll have to see about starting an actual fire the next time I'm at an SCA camping event - probably the end of August.

Something you might want to try, charring some of the hemp rope, it makes it catch even better.

Also something you might consider is the use of char cloth with flint and steel. With char cloth you can hod the flint with the char cloth on top.

Then strike downward with your steel striker or the spine of your knife. Sparks will jump up and hopefully land on the char cloth and start and ember. It may take a few tries but this technique tends to be the most common method people use. Then transfer the char cloth ember into a tinder bundle and blow the flame to life.

There are tons of youtube videos demonstrating how to do all this.

[Manveruon]

Interesting, thanks for the info!

Friction fire is something I've been sort of in awe of for years, but I always sort of shied away from it as being too difficult. It definitely is something I'd like to learn though.

That method with flint, steel, and char cloth definitely looks great, and I'll probably have to give it a shot. I haven't gotten around to procuring or making any char cloth, mainly because I believe I read somewhere that its history really only goes back to the 18th century, or something like that. But I certainly can see why it would be extremely useful. As for charring the hemp fibers, do you have a recommended method?

[ineffableone]

Interesting, thanks for the info!

Friction fire is something I've been sort of in awe of for years, but I always sort of shied away from it as being too difficult. It definitely is something I'd like to learn though.

That method with flint, steel, and char cloth definitely looks great, and I'll probably have to give it a shot. I haven't gotten around to procuring or making any char cloth, mainly because I believe I read somewhere that its history really only goes back to the 18th century, or something like that. But I certainly can see why it would be extremely useful. As for charring the hemp fibers, do you have a recommended method?

Not sure how long people have been using char cloth, but at least as long as 1541. Shown in R. COPLAND Guydon's Quest. "They be made of softe tendre, as of seare olde lynen cloth" You mostly likely got 18th century from the advent of the fire piston in the mid 1700's. Which is commonly the primary documented case of char cloth. But the existence of char cloth was out there before the 18th century.

Char cloth would of course need the advent of cloth to be produced. So it wouldn't be older than that. Except it is possible to be a concept older, as you can also char cattail down, punky wood, and other natural tinders to make them even more likely to take a spark. It is possible that charred materials were used as tinders for as long as flint and steel has.

As for how to char hemp rope. Same way as char cloth. Put in a container, like altoids tin, with a small hole for smoke to escape but not large enough to allow oxygen in. Place the container in a fire. Wait till you stop seeing smoke from the hole, remove and it should be charred but not gone. If under charred repeat process, if over charred then try again but leave in less time.

Or just toss the end of the rope into a fire and then pull it out and smother it. The black charred end, trim off and you have charred hemp rope.

BTW, experiments have found that it is possible to make char cloth in clay vessels.

[Eledhwen]

Mostly I use flint and steel, having become quite adept at it over the years. But I also use a bow drill, hand drill, and fire plunger..just to stay proficient with them.

Eledhwen

[man_of_tanith]

I'm currently teaching myself fire by bowdrill.
have had successful embers every day since Friday and now getting the position and technique sqaured away in my muscle memory.
usually fires are lit with lighter or flint and steel.
as an alternative to charcloth try a bit of lampwick. easily charred and put out and can be used for other things if you have a suitable length of it

[ineffableone]

BTW on the subject of char cloth, typically in historical use it was reserved as a at home tinder. If you think about it cloth was not a cheap throw away item back in the day. So char cloth was not something to waste and use too much of. In the forest tinder fungus, bracket fungus horse hoof fungus or amadou, was used regularly. Or fat wood shavings, cattail fluff, or other natural tinders. Chart cloth was reserved for at home, due to generally the area around settlements got stripped of resources pretty quickly. So other means were needed where there were lots of people. And once you got your fire going, you kept it burning as long as you could (days weeks months if possible), so you would not have to waste more char cloth to get it started again.

[RikJohnson]

I've heard a lot of people talk about fire drills of various kinds on here, but I've always wondered where that practice originated. Is there any European history of that kind of that fire-starting method, or is it primarily New-World?

Though not European, the movie _Quest for Fire_ extras has a discussion about that. The film needed to actually make fire and as it was filmed in Kenya, they found some guy who knew how to do it, put him in costume and filmed him making fire.

[RikJohnson]

This is the method I use.
My main trouble with flint-&-steel is keeping that stupid piece fo flint sharp enough to sheer steel off the striker.
Fortunatly, I have a pile of British flint just outside my front door, thanks to a couple visits to that nation, so I have plenty for practice and some for trade. That's how I got my strikers, by trading flint to a blacksmith at the Ren Faire.

[RikJohnson]

>>There is some evidence and history of friction fire in Europe but it is frustratingly little to go by. One example can be found here http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/fire.shtml <<

I read the article but when they describe the "The second major type of fire-steel found in the Viking Age is " they describe a steel held in a bronze holder to imply that the steel was replaced as it wore out.
The curious thing is the stone with a groove.

obviously, you held the bronze handle and rubbed the steel part through the groove in the rock.
Did this cause sparks (unlikely) or heat-by-friction to light tinder? What kind of stone was used?

Anyone know about this method?