Middle Earth Ranger Forum

As discussed here http://ranger.budgetauthenticity.org/fo ... f=3&t=3191 I am planning to start rolling out the first forum classes around mid April. The plan is to post a class every Saturday. After it is posted everyone is free to ask as many questions as they need, and please nothing but constructive criticism here guys. I say that because the HEMA community has become very diverse and everyone interprets the Art slightly different and I've seen things get heated quite quickly. Just to state: much of this will be very generic and will not stick to any one tradition(German, Italian, English etc.). Classes will begin with the very basics in footwork, body mechanics and weapon movement. As to what material is covered first I leave to my fellow rangers. This poll will run until Sunday, April 3nd. Happy voting!

Love it! I cast my vote for sword and buckler! Can't wait!

Starting from the begining, I think would be a wonderful way to progress, and I see no better beggining than Quarterstaff. If done properly it leads well into sword, then on into sword and buckler.
I will look forward to these classes in any order thankyou for being willing to teach them!

Wow! Thank you for doing this!

Could the "Sword and buckler" be expanded to "sword-and-hatchet/-knife /-frying pan /-other implement a woodsman might have to hand?"

And I know it's not on your list, but I'm still really curious about your "thoughts on the bow in skirmish combat."
I don't think anyone's really done much with that, and it's a gaping hole in real-world knowledge vs. Hollywood presentations of Ranger types.

Elleth wrote:Wow! Thank you for doing this!

Could the "Sword and buckler" be expanded to "sword-and-hatchet/-knife /-frying pan /-other implement a woodsman might have to hand?"

And I know it's not on your list, but I'm still really curious about your "thoughts on the bow in skirmish combat."
I don't think anyone's really done much with that, and it's a gaping hole in real-world knowledge vs. Hollywood presentations of Ranger types.

Actually the frying pan, beyond our comical Sam's first attemts, is a very versitile tool! It can be used as a very effective bludgeoning weapon and as a handled buckler! A nice big pan can cover a fairly good space and can be moved relatively swiftly. the handle facing out does expose the hand, but nothing a good gauntlet and a few tennis lessons could not fix!

One addition to the bow can be an important last stand type of weapon. I have been working on my longbow and have been carving my horn tips. They do help the bow be a bit more durable when stringing on the ground and such' but the sharp point can be pretty devastating used properly.
As I said though, you pretty much have to make it a last ditch effort because unlike on the silver screen, bows don't stand up to that kind of abuse and still remain useful bows for very long.

Elleth wrote:Wow! Thank you for doing this!

Could the "Sword and buckler" be expanded to "sword-and-hatchet/-knife /-frying pan /-other implement a woodsman might have to hand?"

And I know it's not on your list, but I'm still really curious about your "thoughts on the bow in skirmish combat."
I don't think anyone's really done much with that, and it's a gaping hole in real-world knowledge vs. Hollywood presentations of Ranger types.

You'll be surprised at how adept you will get with other off hand weapons after learning to use the buckler.
I'm actually slowly typing on the bow essay. I'm hoping to have that ready in another month or so, with pics of course.

I'm an i.33 man.

More buckler.

Ringulf wrote:Actually the frying pan, beyond our comical Sam's first attemts, is a very versitile tool! It can be used as a very effective bludgeoning weapon and as a handled buckler! A nice big pan can cover a fairly good space and can be moved relatively swiftly. the handle facing out does expose the hand, but nothing a good gauntlet and a few tennis lessons could not fix!

Hmm....

Ha! I wonder how many bucklers have been cookpots through the ages?

That's actually brilliant - with the handle folded inwards, the pan literally could function just like a buckler! Makes me almost wish someone out there would consider making something specialized to both purposes - say, a stainless steel frying pan with a folding handle that actually latches down when folded for extra security as needed as a potential off-hand weapon.

Hunh.. as an aside, do we ever hear about bucklers or small shields in general in Middle Earth? I don't recall a reference.

I suppose I'd always assumed that the tiny shields *tended* be be more civil than martial weapons, and most of the people we meet in late 3rd Age ME either aren't the type to go armed (Hobbits) or are already on a war footing (Rohirrim, etc) and as such are in full panoply.

But that's not really my area of expertise: thoughts?

Elleth wrote:Hunh.. as an aside, do we ever hear about bucklers or small shields in general in Middle Earth? I don't recall a reference.

I couldn't think of any at first either, but did find a couple of direct references:

*Apparently they were known in classic Moria - "Buckler and corslet, axe and sword,/And shining spears were laid in hoard." (Gimli's song of Durin), although these lines were also used verbatim in a version of the Lay of Leithian describing Thingol in Doriath (HoME Vol3.4)

*And known in Mordor, used by the Enemy's supertrolls: "Taller and broader than Men they were, and they were clad only in close-fitting mesh of horny scales, or maybe that was their hideous hide; but they bore round bucklers huge and black and wielded heavy hammers in their knotted hands." (Book 5.10)

Non-specifically, the shield that Gimli acquires from Theoden's armoury is "a small shield"; whether or not that denotes a buckler is up to your interpretation...I can't imagine one would be much use to a mounted culture like that of the Rohirrim.

Udwin wrote:

Elleth wrote:Hunh.. as an aside, do we ever hear about bucklers or small shields in general in Middle Earth? I don't recall a reference.

Great references Udwin, as always!

Udwin wrote:Non-specifically, the shield that Gimli acquires from Theoden's armoury is "a small shield"; whether or not that denotes a buckler is up to your interpretation...I can't imagine one would be much use to a mounted culture like that of the Rohirrim.

Even though they were a culture that focused on being mounted, like any other culture, they were not always so. That being the case, they would most likely not reject other forms of weaponry that might be useful for other types of warefare, duels of honor or simple training. The buckler, though not very effecient when mounted, was popular elsware in the world of men, and knowing how to fight with it or against it, was surely valuable.

Non-specifically, the shield that Gimli acquires from Theoden's armoury is "a small shield"; whether or not that denotes a buckler is up to your interpretation...I can't imagine one would be much use to a mounted culture like that of the Rohirrim

On the contrary many mounted troops used a small shield historically such as those shown here http://www.comitatus.net/cavalryrecreate.html by late roman cavalry for the purpose of using a lance two handed. I believe cultures like that of the Mongols used small shields as well for similar reasons.

I chose longsword because... well... I have a longsword waster. But I'm looking forward to the classes as you post them. This is going to be a great way to get wma out to people who don't have it offered in their areas.

Hmm, I wonder if I could build a waster after my Clontarf? Something to think on.