rethinking the rangers weapons

[mcapanelli]

Hey gang,

You know while polishing my sword yesterday (Cut it out Gareth and Pete) I came to the realization that no matter how much I like swords (Stop it you two) they're really not a practical field weapon. where I live I'm almost always fighting rust and pitting. Add to that the need to hone and sharpen them to what amounts to a complex edge about every time they come in contact with a shield rim or armor or another edge, well you get the point. And no matter how much you train you WILL nick the edge and make edge contact when fighting in ernest. Historical examples support this as do some accounts from Squires, although the links escape me at the moment. While I know 'ole J.R.R loved his swords (Stop it! ), there just not practical. So with that (And after Gareth and Pete stop laughing) What weapons do you all feel would be a more practical choice for a ranger in the field. I have an axe that's easy to maintain and holds a much better edge against hard targets. A war hammer is also a good choice to me. Low maintenance and dead simple to use. Long knives are god as well but you run in to the same problems as swords in the maintenance department. So what do you all think given this line of thought should be the primary weapon of a field ranger.

[Willrett]

Wellll I have to say the bow is the main weapon. I would have to think after that it really depends on your type of fighting, if you are all up in the $h!t then a hammer or axe can be perfect but for a more fringe fighter a spear might be a good choice.

I think that the "Rangers Apprentice" series has it correct each ranger has bow 85# long bow, saxe and throwing digger. If you have read those books then you understand how well the weapons and fighting style are thought out for rangers. If you haven't what are you waiting for .

I have always loved the sword so I will always prefer it. I think it can be a quieter when sneaking and taking out sentries.

[Gareth]

...

[mcapanelli]

You know while polishing my sword yesterday (Cut it out Gareth and Pete) I came to the realization that no matter how much I like swords (Stop it you two) they're really not a practical field weapon. where I live I'm almost always fighting rust and pitting. Add to that the need to hone and sharpen them to what amounts to a complex edge about every time they come in contact with a shield rim or armor or another edge, well you get the point. And no matter how much you train you WILL nick the edge and make edge contact when fighting in earnest. Historical examples support this as do some accounts from Squires, although the links escape me at the moment. While I know 'ole J.R.R loved his swords (Stop it! ), there just not practical. So with that (And after Gareth and Pete stop laughing)

...It's good to have friends that understand you, but that was BAD! LMAO!

Ehem. I love my sword. It's not so long as to be unwieldy, yet it's the right size to get the job done. I just find that I need to remember to keep a firm grip (not too tight, now!) and remember all the various maneuvers I've learned over the years...
I tried to resist... *sigh*

I knew you couldn't resist.

[Peter Remling]

While I like carrying a hand and a 1/2 to the Faire. In the woods I prefer my home improvement straight kindjal or my Atrim 1557 (relatively short single hander). I still prefer sword over most over weapons. The offensive and defensive capabilities are useable on humanoids and mystical creatures big and small. While I'll take a spear or bow and a handaxe and knife, my sword is coming along too.

Mike, I'm shocked and dismayed to that you thought I'd imply something juvenile. See how serious I can be.




Next week I'm going to be wearing "big boy" underwear.

[Greg]

As long as the length of the sword is kept within reason, nobody gets hurt.







*chuckle snicker chuckle*

But seriously...the hardest thing I've had to deal with in setting up my kit was finding a sword short enough to be reasonable in both the field and in direct combat. The VA Bristol I carry is a fantastic little bugger (though I'm working on some issues with the rig that came with it...too floppy/bouncy) and is of a length that lets me use it in any situation. Problem is, yes, it's still a sword. It still has an edge that will get damaged very easily, and is hard to maintain. But that's kind-of part of the reason I love it so much. It's REAL, and I'll only get as much out of it as I put into it. If I train with it often enough and provide enough TLC to the edge for it to work at its best, I will be able to do its maker justice with my performance against all manner of orcs, trolls, and the like.

If you want to pick an overall most reliable weapon, hands down, I say kukri. Mine takes going through logs and bashing rocks to start dulling at all, but it still has enough weight to split logs and the like with little effort, even though the blade's trashed.

I'd say the bow would be the primary, but it's only useful beyond a certain distance. A bow can't be used during grappling, and a bow is only as useful as the amount of time you spend practicing with it. A kukri can be used fairly effectively in the hands of any old nutcase. Chop chop chop. Stick a kukri in your off hand and you can chop twice as quickly, one hand after the other, or block with the inward curve of one and chop with the other. Chop, chop, chop.

Chop chop.

.....Chop.

[R.D.Metcalf]

Get ready to throw some things at me. But I disagree strongly with the premise of this thread. Very Strongly. I've been foolish enough to to do some torture testing in my time. I literally cut down a small tree with an Albion Gaddhjalt, the edge was fine. I repeated that feat sometime later with a Reeve. I used both of these swords extremely hard and only got a few minor nicks....But I could say the same about my Ontario R-Tak.

To give you some idea of the extent that these swords were handled, the cord grooves on the grip of the Gaddhjalt were worn smooth. The Reeve was getting that way.

Alot of folk will look at appearances without ever really knowing what a good sword is capable of doing or just how powerful a weapon it really is. As to fight damage, yes it will happen, but not to a catastrophic degree on a well made sword. While I want to dodge a debate on this
I dont like static edge parries anyway, there are far more more fluid and efficient ways to go about defence,IMO.

Also I would compare a Ranger in many ways to a Scots Highlander, both made long marches on foot, sometimes horseback, in all kinds of weather and were battle proven warriors, not just raid and ambush but conventional eye to eye *battle*....Highlanders were Swordsmen almost to a man. By that fact alone I think swords have proven themselves as practical field weapons.

Edit: I wanted to add a feild tip that may help keep rust off the pommel and cross, I've done it with my Knud and while its not very aescetically pleasing, it does work. Take an emory cloth and rough up the the cross and pommel a bit then put a coat of linseed oil on, and let it dry, this will rain and sweat proof the furniture that are going to handled more often, hence rust more. As far as the blade a good coat of lanolin will keep it in good shape and maintenance free on the march/storage, just clean, polish,if needed, and reapply after the cutting session.

Swords need not be hard to maintain. Hel, I find it easier to maintain my swords than my pistols, to a certain degree.

[Greg]

I'll throw something...but it'll probably be a pint with the sign of the prancing pony on the side of it, on me. Well said. I love my sword, and nothing would keep me from bringing it along (though bringing it on a trek MAY increase frustration until I've gotten my sword belt problems figured out.)

[R.D.Metcalf]

I feel your pain, Greg.It took me awhile to iron out a comfortable way to wear my sword on the trail. My suggestion for its worth is to rig the sword to be worn high, most rigs available today are too low and are actually cavalry rigs, the "swing" we talked about awhile back isnt really a factor to a horseman, but it really sucks when your ground pounding.

Many thanks for the pint, next ones on me!

[mcapanelli]

I don't know man. I don't think we're really taking in to consideration just what happens to carbon steel when exposed for long periods to the elements. Going out in the field for a day, or to the faire for that matter I think would be very different from prolonged exposure to moisture. Saying it's easy while only venturing out in the backyard for the day is one thing. Leave your sword out in the rain for a week or so and tell me how it'll fair then. You can maintain the blade, but you'll after a point always have to be on top of it. Even when it's not convenient. As for never nicking an edge, historical evidence just doesn't support that. From norse sagas to swords in the met, battle scars, including edge nicks, are evident. Never nicking an edge when training in earnest is more dependent on the person your fighting then even your own skill. Seeing as a ranger you can't always depend on your adversary possessing the same skill level or having the same concerns for your weapons as you the no edge nick thing kind of goes out the window.

As for the furniture I agree with Peter Johansen, just let it turn. not that I listen to that as being in a humid climate I'm always at war with rust.

In the end though it's all just an opinion and I love my swords as much as you all do.

[Peter Remling]

Since I've starting making my scabbards, I've never experienced even a stainig problem. Ok mine arn't historically correct but the materials are based on historical finds. The three Del Tins I have up for sale have all sat in leather scabbard through a variety of weather (it seems) for about 20 years. That's when the previous owner made the scabbards. All three only show staining- no pitting or rust flecks or evidence of previous rust. Two of them show wear due to sword on sword and the grips shows wear signs. By the original owner admission they've gone to many overnight fairs as he deals in leather fantasy/medieval harness.

I have purchased and cleaned up a good number of decent blades over the years and even those with severe nicks on the blade could be dressed up within minutes on a bench sander or no longer than 2 hrs by file and stone. With regards to regular maintainance ,I touch up the edge on my every day knife weekly. I think this is normal and don't think it any different than filling the tank or checking the oil on my car nor would it be for a swordsman of the time.

[R.D.Metcalf]

"Leave your sword out in the rain for a week or so and tell me how it'll fair then. You can maintain the blade, but you'll after a point always have to be on top of it. Even when it's not convenient. As for never nicking an edge, historical evidence just doesn't support that. From norse sagas to swords in the met, battle scars, including edge nicks, are evident. Never nicking an edge when training in earnest is more dependent on the person your fighting then even your own skill."

I think you misunderstood me, I said: "As to fight damage, yes it will happen, but not to a catastrophic degree on a well made sword."

As far as leaving a sword in the rain I dont understand your point, historically swords were pretty well protected with lanolin, sheep tallow etc.

All ancient weapons required maintenance even bows were greased. All weapons have their own strengths and weaknesses.

"I think this is normal and don't think it any different than filling the tank or checking the oil on my car nor would it be for a swordsman of the time."

I couldnt agree more.

[mcapanelli]

You know guys I hope my tone here isn't taken the wrong way. It's easy to forget that our true emotion can be misunderstood when typing on a forum. Thanks for the opinions and the discussion. The catalyst for this is the fact that no matter the scabbard, no matter the oil, I'm always fighting a battle against rust. It may have to do with the fact I live on protected marshlands on an island that's super humid all summer. There's a marsh right across the street from my house. Hell my refrigerator has rust spots that have to be cleaned. I may have a different experience, and opinion, when we move out of the swamp of sorrow to the misty mountains in a year or two.

[Greg]

I don't think your tone's being misconstrued here. Frankly, I was getting a little worried about everyone's tone here until I realized that it was simply because we're all used to agreeing on everything here. BUt now that we're engaged in a healthy discussion where people are politely taking sides, we might as well be fighting over the ring at Rivendell. No, we're all in this together, and nobody's got any hurt feelings over this.

On the topic of fighting rust, David and I were conned into helping decorate our Church for Vacation Bible school over the last three weeks, and the whole thing was "Museum" themed. Naturally, we designed an Arms and Armour room which involved copious amounts of wallhangers and three mannequins dressed from head to toe in various pieces of armor and our kit.

I forgot to re-oil my blade and scabbard before I zip-tied it shut and hung it on our Forester/Ranger mannequin, and it has some small rust spots now. To turn this discussion around a bit into a "How the hell do you fight off said light-brown microscopic orcs?" how do YOU guys get this crap off? I've heard a number of methods and have googled plenty, but I've never had to deal with it before so I'm coming to you. Have at it!

[hesinraca]

To turn this discussion around a bit into a "How the hell do you fight off said light-brown microscopic orcs?" how do YOU guys get this crap off? I've heard a number of methods and have googled plenty, but I've never had to deal with it before so I'm coming to you. Have at it!

Let's see if we can't get some productivity out of this;)

My general motto after working in various metals for 8 years is: "Don't do more then you have to, because you only make more work for yourself and possibly find you're lacking in materials because of your zeal". There were plenty of times when I was fitting a solder seam and filed too much away and spent 2 hours re-fitting and re fitting because of it. Point being, if you have chips, use a heavy file, if you have little nicks, you might only need a course stone. When my knives start to rust I generally avoid going up to belt sanders, files, and palm sanders and 60 grit sand-paper because you're just going to remove a ton more material then you need.

For non-pitted rust I stick to steel wool, 600 and 1200 grit sand paper, and finally polishing cloth and oil. You may feel like your working too hard with the steel wool, but in the end you aren't taking much if any material off so you preserve the integrity of the blade.

For the final polish, I've heard combination of flax-fiber and wool with small drops of linseed, mineral oil, or lanolin oil rubbed into them work well and can be equivocated(is that even a word?) to something around 1200-1600 grit sanding paper. I've also heard certain types of wood or fiber lining the inside of the scabbard and wiped lightly with one of these oils creates an anti-moisture environment that greatly reduces the rust and upkeep time as well.