Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
- Iodo
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Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
I've just been to my local fabric store, they had this cheep on clear out:
I liked it so I bought it but I can't quite decide. It's 100% wool, about a third as thick as my boiled wool cloak and a very tight weave. The pattern is woven rather than printed. The color hasn't come out well in the picture but it's a dark muddy green and a lighter greenish brown, very similar to a natural dyed fabric
I guess the first question is can I even justify it's existence in middle earth?
If I can I'm thinking about what Nemo said about dwarves being a people who like to show off craftsmanship and working with fabric being a difficult skill to perfect, maybe a little of something like this might just say "look we can make stuff" without going over the top
I liked it so I bought it but I can't quite decide. It's 100% wool, about a third as thick as my boiled wool cloak and a very tight weave. The pattern is woven rather than printed. The color hasn't come out well in the picture but it's a dark muddy green and a lighter greenish brown, very similar to a natural dyed fabric
I guess the first question is can I even justify it's existence in middle earth?
If I can I'm thinking about what Nemo said about dwarves being a people who like to show off craftsmanship and working with fabric being a difficult skill to perfect, maybe a little of something like this might just say "look we can make stuff" without going over the top
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
- Elleth
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Well, the houndstooth weave is certainly old enough to be pre-medieval:
https://historiska.se/upptack-historien ... msmanteln/
Whether a dwarf would weave or wear that particular pattern in those particular colors is I think pretty undocumentable either way.
My memory from An Unexpected Party is that dwarves (at least those that were driven from the Lonely Mountain and spread out across Eriador) had a thing for loud colors - but that's more a general impression than a documented reference. And either way, not something I think a fells-ward would choose.
Personally, I'd go for a dwarf showing off craftsmanship in weaving I'd go for more variation in texture than color, but again I think that's a very personal un-supportable instinct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houndstoo ... nd_historyThe oldest known occurrence of houndstooth is the Gerum Cloak[3], a garment uncovered in a Swedish peat bog, dated to between 360 and 100 BC.[4]
https://historiska.se/upptack-historien ... msmanteln/
Whether a dwarf would weave or wear that particular pattern in those particular colors is I think pretty undocumentable either way.
My memory from An Unexpected Party is that dwarves (at least those that were driven from the Lonely Mountain and spread out across Eriador) had a thing for loud colors - but that's more a general impression than a documented reference. And either way, not something I think a fells-ward would choose.
Personally, I'd go for a dwarf showing off craftsmanship in weaving I'd go for more variation in texture than color, but again I think that's a very personal un-supportable instinct.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
- Iodo
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
No way! thanks for that, I had no idea when I pulled the bolt off the shelf, that it was a pattern so well documented in historyElleth wrote:Well, the houndstooth weave is certainly old enough to be pre-medieval:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houndstoo ... nd_historyThe oldest known occurrence of houndstooth is the Gerum Cloak[3], a garment uncovered in a Swedish peat bog, dated to between 360 and 100 BC.[4]
https://historiska.se/upptack-historien ... msmanteln/
when I saw it I just thought that it would show a slightly higher level of craftsmanship to have a few more patterned fabrics instead of plain broadcloth, since as a fells-ward I cant be going around in bright colors, if I want to add interest i'd have to do it in a different way, only now I research how it's made it's not that hard so I suppose it isn't much of a jump in skill from plain broadcloth, for now I'm not even sure what to make from it (if anything), here's the two ideas I had:Elleth wrote: Personally, I'd go for a dwarf showing off craftsmanship in weaving I'd go for more variation in texture than color, but again I think that's a very personal un-supportable instinct.
- another hood (I expect most Erebor dwarves have a few of those)
- A wool over tunic with short sleeves (same pattern as my summer kit one) to add another layer in the winter cold, then only the sleeves would be visible
I could make anything else if I have another idea
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
- Elleth
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Offhand, I think an open-front, short sleeve tunic / long vest such as Ringulf has here might work:
http://middleearthrangers.org/forum/vie ... 447#p42447
Perhaps with tablet-woven trim rather than fur?
http://middleearthrangers.org/forum/vie ... 447#p42447
Perhaps with tablet-woven trim rather than fur?
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Wow, I had no idea houndstooth was such an old pattern! Very cool! As to whether it would be a good fit for dwarvish impression, I think it's fine, especially following Nemo's theory about craftsmanship. If you want to justify it, I have a theory myself that Dale, located on the River Running and kind of the highest-tech settlement in the region, would have had a lot of water-mills for things like fulling wool, making paper, grinding grain, etc. Perhaps that could account (after its reestablishment of course) for such a 'fancy' type of fabric?
Personae: Aistan son of Ansteig, common Beorning of Wilderland; Tungo Brandybuck, Eastfarthing Bounder, 3018 TA; a native Man of the Greyflood, c.850 SA
- Elleth
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
I think even the presence of mills needn't be a prerequisite - people have been playing with weaving patterns for a loooooooong time.
Well back into the weighted-warp loom era, certainly!
I was quite surprised digging into iron age stuff to see just how common things like twills, herringbones, and such were.
I still have too much a "1950's gramma" vibe from most patterned weaves to really like using them in reenactment garb, but I'll happily admit that's my own prejudiced eye, and I'm learning.
Well back into the weighted-warp loom era, certainly!
I was quite surprised digging into iron age stuff to see just how common things like twills, herringbones, and such were.
I still have too much a "1950's gramma" vibe from most patterned weaves to really like using them in reenactment garb, but I'll happily admit that's my own prejudiced eye, and I'm learning.
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
- Iodo
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Good thinking, Dale being the trading town that it is would probably have all kinds of fabricsUdwin wrote:As to whether it would be a good fit for dwarvish impression, I think it's fine, especially following Nemo's theory about craftsmanship. If you want to justify it, I have a theory myself that Dale, located on the River Running and kind of the highest-tech settlement in the region, would have had a lot of water-mills for things like fulling wool, making paper, grinding grain, etc. Perhaps that could account (after its reestablishment of course) for such a 'fancy' type of fabric?
I think I have the same mental block, that's why I don't think I'd be able to use a large amount of it in my kit, but in small amounts I think it would be OKElleth wrote: I still have too much a "1950's gramma" vibe from most patterned weaves to really like using them in reenactment garb, but I'll happily admit that's my own prejudiced eye, and I'm learning.
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
- Darnokthemage
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
As a fan of tolkiens drawings i would suggest that a pair of dwarven breeches would look fine in that wool!
Artist, larper and history lover.
- Iodo
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Not a bad ideaDarnokthemage wrote:As a fan of tolkiens drawings i would suggest that a pair of dwarven breeches would look fine in that wool!
the black trousers I have on in the last pic on this thread: https://www.ranger.budgetauthenticity.o ... t=scotland are actually single hose (kind of anyway) made from the same fabric as the tunic, maybe if I make the same pattern in this it would give me a harder wearing thicker version for winter?
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
- Iodo
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Over Christmas I finished this, it's taken me until now to get around to posting it:
it's shorter than tunics normally are so I can wear it with everyday clothing as well, it's edged in thin wool broad-cloth (another attempt to avoid having linen for water to soak into), the embroidery is in blue because I wanted to use some brighter color
when I'm in full kit the pattern is only visible on my arms so it's not to noticeable and it's a little thicker than my black one so it keeps wind/water out a little better
and I have a matching hood in the works as well
it's shorter than tunics normally are so I can wear it with everyday clothing as well, it's edged in thin wool broad-cloth (another attempt to avoid having linen for water to soak into), the embroidery is in blue because I wanted to use some brighter color
when I'm in full kit the pattern is only visible on my arms so it's not to noticeable and it's a little thicker than my black one so it keeps wind/water out a little better
and I have a matching hood in the works as well
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
- Peter Remling
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Very nice ! I like this piece a lot, great work !
- Iodo
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Thanks so muchPeter Remling wrote:Very nice ! I like this piece a lot, great work !
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
- SierraStrider
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Wow, that looks great, Iodo! The trim and embroidery are awesome. It fits super well with the rest of the kit.
Last edited by SierraStrider on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Greg
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Fantastic craftsmanship!
Now the sword shall come from under the cloak.
- Iodo
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Re: Patterned fabric, Dwarven or not??
Thank you both
Gimli: It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men.
Aragorn: It's the beards.
Aragorn: It's the beards.