What's an untrained ranger to do?

[Eric C]

Okay, it's time to bring a debate I've seen on another forum to this one. So get something to drink, maybe a snack or two, get comfortable and give me your thoughts.

So, I've got John Clements' Medieval Swordsmanship (all I can afford at the moment). I've read most of it, but reading's not doing, if you catch my meaning. I've gotten a pretty nice waster in need of minimal repair- which is done- from Mike Capanelli. One thing I don't have is an instructor.

There are many who say, "Never train without an instructor!" Okay, so let me examine that for a moment. I THINK the nearest Western Martial Arts practicioner to me is our own R.D. Metcalf. I am always looking for excuses to get over toward our mountains, but at the moment I am not only looking for excuses, I am also looking for the cash and reliable transportation to get me there. R.D. is also only about 5-6 hours from me, so meeting on a regular basis would be out. That is assuming R.D. would take on the responsibility of training me in the first place.
There is no ARMA study group to my knowledge anywhere near here.

I know that Tinker Pearce also teaches- Seattle, WA.
Then there is Schola Gladiatora- UK.

Okay, perhaps that avenue is a dead end for me. It is dead to MANY people that I have met on these boards. Most of us don't have access to teachers of WMA.

Then there are those who say, "Just go have fun with your swords." I would add that I am certain that these folks don't mean for you to go out and act in a careless or irresponsible manner with a weapon.

So, the only option I see for myself is to take the aforementioned book and waster out into the yard and go to work. Then when I get more confident, SLOWLY work my way into using the real sword for drills at slower than combat speed. I want to be able to cut before too long. I have a reason for that, which doesn't really fit into this forum.
I would also add that I DO have bayonet training from Uncle Sam, though that was 20 years ago. But the point is, stay away from the point.

So, what are your thoughts on my situation? What route would you suggest I take?

Ranger needing help!

[Chris Russo]

WMA classes and instructors can be hard to find--I was lucky enough to have Mike a half-hour's drive from me, when I had time for his classes. Eastern martial arts, however, seem more prevalent.

Before I took classes with Mike, I took tai chi for a semester, and also a few classes of aikido. I would say that while there are divergences, there are also definitely some crossovers: balance, footwork, center of gravity... Had I gotten more into the swording aspects of those arts, I think the application would have been even greater. My advice is, take kung fu, aikido, kendo, or another weaponry martial art that one could adapt to western swords.

While I'm not one to dogmatically say, "never train without an instructor!" I do believe there are limits to solo play and what one can learn from manuals. It's very easy to pick up bad habits, or not see obvious openings you've left. By all means continue with the solo play, get to know your waster, but a second set of eyes really is immensely helpful: mirrors and videotaping yourself only get you so far.

So are there any kendo, iaido, or kung fu places near you?

[Eric C]

Chris, I think you nailed it. Sort of an illustration: I was working the blacksmith booth at the state fair this year. An older, much more experienced blacksmith watched me for a while, then pulled me off to the side and gave me a suggestion. He always says, "This isn't the only way, and it may not be the best way, but it's my way." Then he tells you a really good way to accomplish what you are trying to do. Anyway, he told me how to do something and after I did it, he hit me with that line. I asked him, "Do you know how I got so good at my day job?' A defensive look came into his eye and he hesitantly asked, "How?" I said, "By listening to those who have gone before me." Slowly a grin stretched across his face and he sort of welled up with pride before he turned and went back to work.

I took Goju Shorin when I was a teenager, so I can recall some footwork. But I had higher belted people all around me who were able to point out things that needed attention. I agree that it pays off to have a partner to train with. As for classes, there may be some in Raleigh, at least 45 minutes away. But there again, there is my lay-off situation. Have I mentioned in my last three posts that I hate lay-offs?

[dwayne davis]

Well just to chime in. their is the possability/option of using somthing like an instant messenger YH that will let you use youre trusty web cam to do live vidieo and chatt? you could go over things in real time and get live input as you go. may not be a perfect solution butt.....

[E.MacKermak]

Have you looked into Schola St. George (www.scholasaintgeorge.com)? They have instructors and study groups around the country. They work from the Fiore fechtbuch on longsword, dagger, spear, etc. It may be worth checking in to see if there is an instructor or a study group in your area.


-EMK

[Odigan]

While you are in sort of a "dead zone" for WMA, there is more about you than you may realize, and you certainly needn't look so far afield as WA or the UK! I'm not sure of your exact location, but as mentioned above, there is the Schola St. George, which has a group in Charleston. Your nearest ARMA group should be ARMA UGA, in Athens, GA. There are also ARMA chapters in TN and VA, and Virginia - though a bit out of your way - is also home to Tom Leoni's Order of the Seven Hearts and The Virgina Academy of Fencing. Even if you are unable or unwilling to travel so far, my recommendation to you is to contact these schools and describe your situation. They may be able to direct you to someone nearer, or even tell you that they have students somewhere midway or nearer to you that you could train or occasionally carpool with.

Most of us that picked up WMA more than a few years ago were in a similar plight to your own. Many of us didn't have instructors and taught one another what we could from books, and at that time there weren't many available. It's not easy, but not impossible. I have a few recommendations on this point. Firstly, pick up a copy of The Swordsman's Companion, Knightly Art of the Longsword, or some of the other excellent more recent titles (I can provide a list if you're interested), or even a subscription to WMA Illustrated. Clements' works, while being the only ones of their kind a decade ago, are now by his own admission very much outmoded.

Next, if you cannot locate a group or individual near enough to you, make every effort to attend some class or group that you can, even if it be once a month or even once every six months. Additionally, if you are truly interested in WMA, I cannot recommend more highly than to make it to one of the several large conferences held each year. Offhand, I don't think any of these are near to you, but WMAW in Racine, WI., ISMAC in Detroit, MI, the ARMA International Gathering in TX., and 4W in WA. are all excellent events that provide intensive multi-day workshops and most importantly, the opportunity to meet (and train with!) instructors and students from around the world. Many groups also hold smaller seminars or gatherings elsewhere. Also inquire with the above WMA schools and see if they might be having a demo or class in your area. Indeed, if you can find enough local interest, you might be able to convince them to come to you!

On top of all this of course, have fun!

[Eric C]

Well, good news. Somebody PMed me a site that pointed out that there are two people who are closer to me who train WMA. I have actually met one of them and he is a member over on SFI. Don't know why I didn't think of him. Also, on my way to Raleigh today to pick up a couple of supplies for some knives I'm trying desperately to finish, I noticed a building that was a landscaping center is now emblazoned with a sign advertising Aikido. I am also very interested in checking further into the Schola St George site.

Sorry I was slow on answering your posts. (switch on the whiner) I am struggling to finish three knives this weekend and get them into the hands of new owners before Christmas. So internet time has been limited to checking emails, deleting bots and reading your posts and a PM here and there. (Okay, switch whiner off now) But there IS a light at the end of the tunnel.

Y'all are the greatest. Thanks for the links.

[mcapanelli]

How about I'll be moving to your neck of the woods in a month or two. Why not start a study group? I'll be living around Lake Norman for a year and then to Asheville so we could study together.

[Eric C]

It's still about 4 hours from me, but we can work something out. We'll have to work on frequency of meetings and such. I am rather envious. If I were to leave this area, I'd want to move toward Ashville.

[R.D.Metcalf]

Hands on instruction is good but to echo the previous thoughts its sometimes not feasible it certainly wasnt in my case, what I have found is that actually training with another person is the next best thing, solo training is useless unless your working at the pell.

I was pretty lucky, at one point before some moves took place there were 8 of us, none of us had armour so even what we considered "free play" was ponderous by most standards but still fast enough to "wow" a few folks.

I like it this way, its small, simple, we learn and above all have fun..and ocassionally play with "outside the box" techniques.

But....

Rant mode: HEMA is becoming like Asian MA...too political too commercial and to see grown men arguing over whose translation/interpetation is better in an age when a 15 year old whelp could shoot both of them before they could draw a sword is just plain silly It just takes geekiness to whole new level, and makes us look like arrogant idiots.

Then there be the elitists who make/inherited enough to hop on a flight to every seminar on the planet who will diss you for "not putting forth the effort" to find instruction, blind to the fact the said instruction might as well be on the frickin' moon considering your budget...buttmonkeys! I hate these folk and even more I hate they fact the seem to enjoy dispiriting poorer newcomers.

on a lighter note:
somewhere along your journey you will meet, what I call the backyard berserkr, he has no remorse, no fear, no common sense and absolutely no reservations when it comes to splitting a skull... his kind are feirce. This is the guy who will not show up with a trainer and sweats...no! he will show up with a stainless claymore...naked and painted with woad....The line between our reality and world of warcraft is, to him, dim at the most lucid of times, but in training its non-existant...For him, Eric, there is no training, only battle. Even without his "wall hanger of doom" he will bat wildly, and howl with rage, ignoring every "hit" you might get on him...His bi-polar, ADD, caffeine and sugar fed mind cannot comprehend defeat, mercy, or legal ramifications...women, children, pets....fence posts will all fare alike...learn his kind and avoid them..


Your welcome at my fire anytime, my friend. If you and mike ever get to Asheville look me up I'm about 45 mins north of there

[Pwyll]

Wow. R D, you've said it beautifully. I bow to your eloquence! Yes, HEMA has become ridiculously political and dogmatic. And yes, there are idiots with the sword who are dangerous to be near, espcially the "backyard berserker".

Echoing the words of others here, I'll say that a grounding in a good eastern MA helps, with regard to body logistics, footwork, posture, etc. This helps when trying to figure out a technique from an old manual. We call it "frog DNA". I'm very fond of the Filipino arts, myself, as they tend to be more weapon oriented, but I also have a great appreciation for good Okinawan karate.

One possibility for you is that there are weekend seminars you can attend. Sure, you'll have to travel. But this gives you a chance for some intense instruction over the period of two days. I attended one with the Columbus, OH ARMA group, and it was fantastic. Good instruction, and that's a great group of people.

And with some instruction like this, you can get back home and practice on your own. But if you have a partner for practice, it's even better. Still, a good practice at flouryshing is good for developing movement. If you can tape it, and send it to people for (constructive) criticism, that's even better.

And, of course, the old manuals. I'd recommend Ringeck for a good beginning, but you'll need help interpreting a lot of it.

I do get down to NC on occasion, and if you'd like to put in a few hours, let me know. Let's just not do it all in the snow...

[David]

Do any of you know of any good/decent resources or groups for us Rangers on the West Coast?

P.S: I'm glad that I'm not the only person I know that uses "buttload" anymore

[mcapanelli]

Hell I'll fight in the snow!! I'll fight in just about anything.........except lightning.

[R.D.Metcalf]

+1

[mcapanelli]

somewhere along your journey you will meet, what I call the backyard berserkr, he has no remorse, no fear, no common sense and absolutely no reservations when it comes to splitting a skull... his kind are feirce. This is the guy who will not show up with a trainer and sweats...no! he will show up with a stainless claymore...naked and painted with woad....The line between our reality and world of warcraft is, to him, dim at the most lucid of times, but in training its non-existant...For him, Eric, there is no training, only battle. Even without his "wall hanger of doom" he will bat wildly, and howl with rage, ignoring every "hit" you might get on him...His bi-polar, ADD, caffeine and sugar fed mind cannot comprehend defeat, mercy, or legal ramifications...women, children, pets....fence posts will all fare alike...learn his kind and avoid them..

You know RD I thought you were cool. There's no reason to insult me man, just no reason. That's just plain wrong.