What's an untrained ranger to do?

[Faolan]

I have the same problem here in Maine, no WMA instructors near-by, travel is not an option and the closest thing is SCA Heavy Weapons. And no offense to those of us in said group (myself included) its not real sword fighting. I have the I.33 manual (The Wagner/Hand book), but it doesn't compare to practicing against a real opponent. I do have the option to put up a pell though, we'll see!

Faolan

[mcapanelli]

You know I may have an answer for you guys. I've been working with my Goju instructor to make a training tool for just this situation. We're trying to work out how to use for WMA as well. It's going to be like a hanging bob training dummy with some mods I don't want to get in to yet. Maybe you'll all be my prototype testers.

[Faolan]

Count me in!

[Eric C]

Sounds great!
BTW: When I was a teenager, I took Goju Shorin which was a combo of Goju Ryu and Shorin Ryu. Great style! It was no-nonsense and street-smart.

[Greg]

My Fiance's brother's a tow truck driver, so he gets all kinds of random junk from totaled cars that never get picked up, etc. He inherited a 90-lb Everlast heavy bag about 6 months ago, but no longer has anywhere to hang it, so since I've got a new place, I'm hanging it off the corner of my little workshop out back, so I'll have a pad to use for Muai Thai as well as getting some WMA work in on. I've seen some heavy bag add-ons that are supposed to mimic arms so you can work on blocking and striking that I'm thinking I could use to practice some i.33 and Dagger work with that I might invest in...

[Pwyll]

Besides review of the basics, such as footwork, wards, strikes, etc., for single practice one of the best exercises is just flourishing, running through a series of all of these until tired.

Hmm, if a tree of suitable size is available, hanging small objects from the limbs to serve as targets. Tennis balls are popular. Those are especially great for solo spear practice. Also, a long stick, tennis balls at either end. Swing to hit one end and then block the other. Random motion is good for working responses.

Not as good as training with a partner, but at least it allows some training.

And, Eric, it was good to meet you and your family. I enjoyed working with you, even though we only had a short time. Keep up the practice!

[Beornmann]

R.D., That was absolutely brilliant, and unfortunately, very true. Very funny in the observation and the recounting, but very very true.

Eric, These are all great ideas. To add my 2¢,:
*Books. I’m fond of Tobler’s interpretation for longsword. Check out Paladin Press or Chivalry Bookshelf.
*SCA. Depending on your local group and the individuals you will find, this could be good or bad, but it will give you exposure to a community of like-minded people.
*Odigan’s & Pwyll’s suggestions of WMA groups are great. ARMA & St. George’s are the most prevalent.
*More traditional western combatives – wrestling, boxing, fencing.
*EMA: if you can stomach the dojo formality, expense and politics then this is a good option. For example I wanted spear training. Contacted & visited a kung-fu instructor 1.5 hours away. Said after at least one year of the basics, would start with weapon training. Too long to wait, too much $, too much time. I’m paying you to teach me what I want. BJJ seems a little more relaxed in their philosophy and the atmosphere in the studios are less BS.
*WMA Yahoo Group: This is moderated by Ken who is also on these boards occasionally. He posts his work-outs. You will get of announcements of other events and training opportunities.

[R.D.Metcalf]

"For example I wanted spear training. Contacted & visited a kung-fu instructor 1.5 hours away. Said after at least one year of the basics, would start with weapon training. Too long to wait, too much $, too much time. I’m paying you to teach me what I want"


Beautifully said, sir! This is a pet peeve of mine. Why exactly cant empty hand training be used to supplement weapons training from the outset? According to some instructors they cant! and thats ridiculous But its also very shrewd especially when they can dupe someone into a contract. Something further that gripes me is that this impossibly slow method is called "traditional" ....I beg to differ, historically a school was only as valuable as its effectiveness in warfare, empty hand and armed combat skills were taught simultaneously, or the warrior would divide his time learning both.

In a European context this was certainly the case as the plates from Meyer beautifully illustrate men engaged with swords, while others wrestle in the back ground.

[Eric C]

I agree with both of you. I understand an instructor wanting a student to have the "basics" of their style down, but come on. You can only get the basics of weapon use by handling a weapon, or its close representative such as a waster.
For instance, when Pwyll came over the only way he showed me anything about the sword was with our wasters. As I recall, neither of us were maimed for life. Correct me if I am wrong Pwyll.

Also we didn't cover just one weapon. We did a little bit of knife work - which hand-to-hand weapon are you most likely to face today? - as well as the slightest bit of stick work. As much as I loved Goju-Shorin, we didn't touch a weapon until gold belt. But I have to say we worked more than one weapon once we started.

I have tried to get back into EMA several times as an adult, but the only schools I have found do not drill the basics as they should or they are oriented toward great performances in tournaments. They are interested in putting trophies in the dojo. I'm interested in learning to defend myself. I have heard of WMA sword guys who were caught in a bad situation using a broomstick or something like that to get themselves out of said situation. But I don't trust much of what many local EMA instructors teach you.

Anyway, I'm taking this way outside the spectrum of its intended direction. I'm not against EMA taught properly. I am against spending a whole lot of money for a little bit of the training I want.

[E.MacKermak]

Have you looked at Schola Saint George (tied to Chivalry Bookshelf since both are run by the same guy)? They have several study groups and train in Italian longsword, spear, dagger, and grappling. Not sure where the nearest group would be for some of you, but I know of study groups in Charleston, SC, and Atlanta.




(edit: I guess St George has been mentioned already. I should read a little further back some times.)

[Eric C]

(edit: I guess St George has been mentioned already. I should read a little further back some times.)

Hey, I'm guilty of the same thing all too often. I'll check into St. George soon. I'm also willing to pack up my waster and meet Oissene and group, or anyone else close enough to travel to.

[Pwyll]

Argh, no! I was maimed! Maimed, I tell you! Got a vicious hang nail...

Er, okay, I'm making that up, too.

No, Eric and I were able to work through a few basics, but were really limited by time. Yeah, we used wood wasters and worked very slow.

And Eric, don't forget the footwork drills. They're unbelievably important. Any number of times since that session, I've only avoided a hit by footwork.

Yeah, most EMA schools focus on the "traditional" approach. On one hand, I can understand this. You really need to get a lot of basics down before you can progress further. A lot of this depends on the student and how well she/he practices. Better practice --> quicker progress toward the fun stuff. You can't really do the fun stuff until you have the fundamentals down. And training the fundamentals os boring as well as frustrating.

And the other hand is, if I'm paying someone for instruction, why can't I pay for what I want to learn, and focus on that? Why should I have to pay for extraneous stuff that doesn't interest me at all?

Of course, most EMA schools are locked into a rigid learning progression, rank structure, etc. And they are a business: a standardized approach is most efficient.

So, my suggestion is just to avoid the traditional EMA schools (although that's my initial background) and learn from someone who has been there. Which isn't a big help if nobody like that is nearby. Which leads to....

The Seminar. Popular now in EMA circles as well as the WMA, this is where you pay a fee up front for an instructor to come in and teach a hell of a lot over a weekend. It's a good way to meet like-minded people and to learn a lot of stuff. The down side is that there can be so much "stuff" that it's hard to remember it all. So these sessions are usually recorded, depending on the instructor's feelings about this. Sometimes you have to buy the DVD. Sometimes, you can just get a copy.

I attended one ARMA seminar in Columbus, on the longsword, and loved it. I have nothing but good things to say about the Columbus ARMA group. But these seminars don't occur too often. Still, I would recommend looking at their website and looking for a local group. http://www.thearma.org/

Of course there's Harnas's Recreational Violence weekend, in NE Ohio. I went last year and am attending this coming weekend, as well. A wide variety of western arts, just at an introductory level. Lot's of fun, and good people.

Other than that, pick up the relevant manuals and muddle through, as best you can, based on prior training. But that's a tough row to hoe.

[mcapanelli]

Of course there's Harnas's Recreational Violence weekend, in NE Ohio. I went last year and am attending this coming weekend, as well. A wide variety of western arts, just at an introductory level. Lot's of fun, and good people.

How'd it go? I wanted to go this year but couldn't find any info.

[Pwyll]

Last year was a lot of fun. Interesting mix of weapons.

This year the focus is on knives and unarmed. Should be a lot of fun. Looking forward to Saturday. First class will be on Meyer's dagger. I'll be very interested to see how the teacher interprets it, compared to what we've been doing here in da 'burgh.

[Eric C]

Pwyll, when you were here and I showed you the knife-disarming move that I made up for my belt test years ago, I got it wrong. I'll have to PM you and tell you the proper order of things.