Middle Earth Ranger Forum

So I've been thinking about the Bowie Knife recently, and specifically Bowie No. 1 here. According to old accounts, it was originally created by James Black for Jim Bowie based on a wooden model that Jim Bowie made. There's also a story that Rezin Bowie, Jim Bowie's brother, had it commissioned as a hunting knife, and it was later redesigned for dueling as seen here.
The blade of Bowie No. 1 is thirteen-and-a-half inches long, and the hilt is made so that it can be wielded similar to a dueling sword or a fencing foil, with the edge facing up and the handle held at a handshake grip.
How well do you guys think a Ranger--say, one of the Dunedain-- would adapt to the use of this sort of knife?

I want to preface this by saying that I love Bowie knives and that example of Bowie number one is excellent. With that said, I think Bowie knives are one of those things that are "glaringly modern."
I can totally see a larger camp/fighting knife in use by rangers. Heck, Legolas fought up close with his "white handled" knife so there's precedent. I'm just personally of the opinion that a clip point and coffin handle say "Old West" more than anything else.
If you want to rock a big knife, I say go for it! Just maybe take more inspiration from medieval designs.
At the end of the day though, do what makes you happy.

This is driving me CRAZY - I feel like I remember a thread about this specific topic a while back, but I can’t quite recall now - but in any case, may I offer for your consideration, the seax: Okay, it’s not REALLY the same as a Bowie knife, but like… it DOES have a certain Bowie-ish quality, right? And I know I’m not the first one to draw the comparison - in fact, Matt Easton of Scola Gladiatoria has a great video specifically comparing the two styles (and why they really are different beasts) here:
https://youtu.be/rV94X-MWD3o

But the upshot, for me at least, is that big, multi-purpose, choppy/stabby knives like this have existed for centuries and can be found in many different cultures, so it does seem like a Ranger might conceivably use something at least passingly similar. In fact! Greg himself has an absolutely GORGEOUS big, choppy/stabby, multi-purpose knife that was custom made for him by our very own Odigan (having handled it personally I can tell you it’s a BEAST, too!), and while it might be a little more chonky than the typical Bowie or seax, it does seem to serve the general purpose(s) of those knives quite well!

So all of this is really to say, okay - maybe a Bowie as-such might be a bit out of place in a Middle-earth setting - but if you keep the same or similar blade, and just change up the hilt a bit to fit more with a sort of mythical Iron Age/Anglo-Saxon aesthetic, I could totally see it making a welcome addition to an authentic Ranger kit.

I like both of your points. To your point, Yavion: this is only a thought experiment, like a "what if Halbarad was dropped into 1856 Dodge City and was forced to adapt, would he go for the bowie knife or something else" sort of thinking. I'm not gonna add a bowie knife to my ranger kit, don't worry; I'm only mostly insane, and haven't gone that far off the deep end yet.
Manv, I'm glad you mentioned the seax; I had honestly kinda forgotten about that. But you raise a good point (heh heh) : there's plenty of examples of pre-modern choppy/stabby knives. I like the fact that across the ages, we've always liked simple multifunctionality.

Ah, misunderstood the thought experiment, my bad.
Yeah, if Middle Earth was set in the wild west I could totally see Legolas as a Doc Holiday type with a bone handled Bowie.

Thalion of Bree wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 9:02 pm I like both of your points. To your point, Yavion: this is only a thought experiment, like a "what if Halbarad was dropped into 1856 Dodge City and was forced to adapt, would he go for the bowie knife or something else" sort of thinking. I'm not gonna add a bowie knife to my ranger kit, don't worry; I'm only mostly insane, and haven't gone that far off the deep end yet.
Manv, I'm glad you mentioned the seax; I had honestly kinda forgotten about that. But you raise a good point (heh heh) : there's plenty of examples of pre-modern choppy/stabby knives. I like the fact that across the ages, we've always liked simple multifunctionality.

The bowie style was around long before Jim Bowie made it famous. During the Sandbar fight he actually used a large hunting drop point he borrowed from his brother Rezin Bowie. There is nothing wrong with using a bowie style knife. Use a single lugged guard and it's just a large clip point hunting knife.

Peter Remling wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2023 1:05 am

Thalion of Bree wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 9:02 pm I like both of your points. To your point, Yavion: this is only a thought experiment, like a "what if Halbarad was dropped into 1856 Dodge City and was forced to adapt, would he go for the bowie knife or something else" sort of thinking. I'm not gonna add a bowie knife to my ranger kit, don't worry; I'm only mostly insane, and haven't gone that far off the deep end yet.
Manv, I'm glad you mentioned the seax; I had honestly kinda forgotten about that. But you raise a good point (heh heh) : there's plenty of examples of pre-modern choppy/stabby knives. I like the fact that across the ages, we've always liked simple multifunctionality.

The bowie style was around long before Jim Bowie made it famous. During the Sandbar fight he actually used a large hunting drop point he borrowed from his brother Rezin Bowie. There is nothing wrong with using a bowie style knife. Use a single lugged guard and it's just a large clip point hunting knife.

Y’know, and now that you mention it, that style of “Bowie” knife has an awful lot in common with a German langmesser as well (although perhaps a bit shorter).

Peter Remling wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2023 1:05 am The bowie style was around long before Jim Bowie made it famous. During the Sandbar fight he actually used a large hunting drop point he borrowed from his brother Rezin Bowie. There is nothing wrong with using a bowie style knife. Use a single lugged guard and it's just a large clip point hunting knife.

Sure, the Bowie style (big coffin-handled knife) was around before Bowie made it famous, but there is a good bit of scholarly debate over whether Bowie commissioned James Black to improve on Rezin's original hunting knife. The handle in that kind of cocked-back position makes handling it like a hunting knife rather difficult. And considering that pretty well all we have to go on is anecdotal evidence for all this, it's really rather difficult to say one way or another whether Bowie designed the more dueling-focused shape or not.

I'm aware of the debate regarding the bowie knife. Please note I said "before Jim Bowie made it famous.". There was no substantial evidence that a blacksmith named James Black even existed when and where he was reported to.

Personally I think some Bowie style blades (note: blades, not handles) translate well to Middle Earth. Manveruon made a good point that many seax blades superficially resemble some Bowie blade shapes, and there is plenty of evidence for clip points on baurnwehr knives in Germany.

I am personally not a big fan of extreme clip to the point of some Western Bowie knives; I prefer a straighter, more subtle clip point, and I think aesthetically that blade shape is fairly close to many seax shapes and would do the same kind of job as them.

I don't see any problem with it.

A hand held hunk of metal with a sharpened edge can only have so many practical variations.

Since it is also for fighting, I would include a guard on it--as much to prevent your from slipping forward during a thrust as protection per se. I get that the shape of the handle assists in this, but I still would want to have one.

I always thought that a large hunting knife which was also effective in the thrust made more sense for a Ranger than a dagger. It's multi purpose.

Peter Remling wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 7:49 pm I'm aware of the debate regarding the bowie knife. Please note I said "before Jim Bowie made it famous.". There was no substantial evidence that a blacksmith named James Black even existed when and where he was reported to.

Hold on; I have recently received a paper on this very topic. I'll link it here so it can do the talking, because I am bad at this. https://www.jstor.org/stable/40038234