Camping in the wild

Jim E · Post by **Jim E** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:50 am

From what I've seen from Andy's pics camping is allowed (as is the lighting of fire) in public places, like forests, in Germany. Here in Greece however there is a law (?.2160/93) which forbids both camping outside specified PRIVATE camping sites and the lighting of fires throughout the Greek territory, on a penalty of about 150 euros! What is the situation in your countries?
I don't know about you but this law seems quite anti-democratic to me since we are all supposed to "own" part of all the public places in our country. I realise that some campers might be irresponsible but such a measure is simply unfair.

Chris Russo · Post by **Chris Russo** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:15 pm

Here in the States some individual forests will have no-fire rules. At the very minimum, public parkland has laws stating that you can't cut down anything that's standing--which makes shelter-building a little problematic (having to build a leanto out of deadwood instead of green branches)... But I don't think there's anything so severe as No Camping Outside Private Camping Sites.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:01 am

I thought that Germany, and in fact most of Europe except for Scandinavia, had a similar policy on camping and fire outside of campgrounds.

From what I understand, the law is applied fairly sparsely when it comes to camping, but fire lighting is a definite no-no, as is anything which could potentially damage ANYTHING. This is rather a sticky problem for rangers, as it makes it difficult to hunt, gather or use in any way most natural products in the wild. A cold, wet night sans fire would be fairly undesirable too...

KerryTracker · Post by **KerryTracker** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:57 am

Here in Ireland we do have some days that call for a fire ban. But mostly it is wet enough that we can have a fire anywhere.

Also, the national forest or private forests through the Republic are open for Rangers to go play in.

In the UK, there are laws prohibiting land owners from excluding hill walkers (or Rangers) from walking on their land.

Post by **Greg** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:28 am

KerryTracker wrote:Here in Ireland we do have some days that call for a fire ban. But mostly it is wet enough that we can have a fire anywhere.

Also, the national forest or private forests through the Republic are open for Rangers to go play in.

In the UK, there are laws prohibiting land owners from excluding hill walkers (or Rangers) from walking on their land.

If only we had freedom to the extent that you do everywhere...*sigh*

In the hills around me, where I most frequently go for Rangering activities, I have to keep it to one day events, without an overnighter. I can't light fires, so cooking wouldn't work out, and they ask that we only use their marked campsites. That wouldn't be an issue, except those marked campsites along the backpacking trails are pretty busy. I don't like awkward stares.

So for me to find free range territory where I can hunt squirrels, quail etc. for food, make an open fire (safely, of course) and sleep where I please, I have to hike a good six hours off-trail. I DO that, of course...but it's annoying. I suppose it makes for good practice in ensuring I leave early enough, and if I don't, it's good practice getting a camp and fire set up in the dark...

KerryTracker · Post by **KerryTracker** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:46 am

Greg,

Not to suggest non-compliance, but sometimes I find that camping and Rangering in unauthorised areas is a great training modality.

When I was in grad school in Seattle, I lived in a debris hut in a state park near my school. I made it in a way that no one ever saw it. I had tracks of people walking within arms reach of my home and never saw it. I had fires with no problem. I was not fifty feet from a major hiking trail.

It was great training since I had to get in and out without being seen. I had other 'campers' within a hundred feet who also spent a lot of time in my area. They were meth heads. They never knew I was there. I kept an eye on them but never really intervened.

Just to clear things up: I wasn't completely ferrel. I did shower at the college and eat a lot of my meals at the cafeteria.

I guess my point is that Ranger training can happen where people wouldn't expect you to be.

For the final week of my Ranger Scout class, I take my students on a four day overnight in a National Forest. I purposely have them camp near heavily used trails. They cannot be seen, they have to gather their own foods (both plant and animal) while still completing the tasks that they need to do in order to graduate.

Rangering is thinking outside the box...

Post by **Greg** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:08 am

Don't get me wrong...I do push my limits as to where I'm "allowed" to be. But I'm no poacher; I won't hunt save where it's legal. And THERE is the big problem.

Willrett · Post by **Willrett** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:26 am

Yeah that is a problem here to. I plan to start hiking at first this spring (trying to get wife involved) and then move up from there. I want to hike to scout some places. Hope to start some camping by the fall.

Post by **Eledhwen** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:50 am

Massachusetts has some pretty fierce laws; can't shoot a bow (or firearm) within 500 feet of a dwelling, the edged weapons law is unbelievable, and just about every forest disallows overnighting or fires save in designated places. Here, your kitchen cutlery is technically illegal according to the written law. Double edged blades are a flat no-no and even a staff can be called a bludgeon due to the very vague definitions...IF you get yourself into trouble.

How it really works is that you get ignored for having certain things unless someone complains or you cart said things about in public, or get yourself into trouble via fighting, offense or defense. But if you do get into real trouble, of any kind that occasions a search, just having the things lengthens your list of offenses.

6,349,097 people in 7838 square miles of land makes for very little space away from anyone. My end of the state, the western end, carries 13% of the population so we tend to have the parks and trails and such...which are swarmed by the other 87% of the population especially during the summer.

Rangering is not impossible, but it IS a huge challenge.

Siani

Post by **Greg** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:55 am

I pity you, brother. Thank heavens we Dunedain are blessed with long lives, or ones such as yourself might NEVER escape from civilization!

Post by **Eledhwen** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:10 am

I manage; there are private grounds that are very occasionally accessible, there's Vermont to the North and the Green Mountains state park, and of course a bit further West the Berkshires themselves, but as I say, it is NOT easy by any stretch of the imagination, not with that many people around. A certain plus is that the rules also require people to stay on the trails as marked...a set of rules set in place more to protect the environment from us than any other reason.

If you are not bothered by Winter camping then you can get more alone time, or if you are up in the slices of the off season before the hordes arrive. So it isn't hopeless, just very limiting in a LOT of ways. Freedom here means lots of laws...mostly due to far too many people in far too small an area.

Oh, and its 'sister'; I'm one of the ladies on the forum.

Siani

KerryTracker · Post by **KerryTracker** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:06 pm

After reading over this post, I have to extend my own caution. I believe that discretion is one of the most important Ranger skills. Camping and rangering in off limits areas can be damaging to the environment and set the wrong precedence. All too often one sees a short cut trail through the woods that caused irreparable damage.

I see the Rangers as also caretakers of the wild. We should be able to move silently through the woods without leaving a trail or track. I still have along way to go with this way of movement.

The bottom line is to get out into the woods as often as possible. That might not be in full Ranger garb, but I try to wear as much wool as possible.

Post by **Greg** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:25 am

Siani wrote:Oh, and its 'sister'; I'm one of the ladies on the forum.

Oh......snap.

A thousand pardons, sister.

Post by **Eledhwen** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:21 am

No worries.

I do hike the trails around here, and often. The Metacomet-Monadnock Trail, the Robert Frost Trail, and the Appalachian Trail are all nearby, not to mention countless local trails. I walk at least three miles a day, usually practicing my staff forms along the way with my walking stick.

I joined the Appalachian Trail Club here in part so I could help with keeping the trails up and maintaining the forests.

While Rangering itself, in full garb, is rather challenging, hiking and camping are not, and those I do as often as I can.

Siani

Eric C · Post by **Eric C** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:27 pm

[quote="GregOh......snap.

A thousand pardons, sister.[/quote]

Greg!!!??? You didn't know she was a lady? I knew it all along! LOL. No, not really. While I love these forums because you get to meet rather interesting people from all over the world, there certainly are limitations.

Anyway, on the subject. The two things I miss since we moved into our own place and out of the 200-year-old rental we were in for 7 years are the sunsets and the 50 acres that I could roam on mostly free of prying eyes.