Hunting

[BrianBlass]

While reading several of the other posts on the forums, it looks like several of the members here hunt. I was curious if your reenacting of the Middle Earth Rangers extends to your hunts, or if people still use more conventional methods while taking game, or if we have a mixture of people who do both.

If you do lean more toward the old world styles of hunting, I'd be very interested in hearing what methods you use (i.e. Longbow vs. compound, do you use scents or scent eliminators, do you wear modern camo or Ranger garb, etc. etc.)

[Greg]

I've never used scents or scent eliminators. I've also never spent any time hunting larger game (deer, etc.) though I have spent time stalking them as practice, etc. I've hunted turkey once in Ranger gear with success, as well as some small game. However, hunting in ranger gear for me means no compounds. My bow is actually still out of place, as the current one I'm shooting is a fiberglass-backed lightweight yew recurve, but it's still traditional in function, and I (when I find more time) am still working on a new, more appropriate longbow.

The trick with period hunting is to think about everything that you're going to need, and then erase 2/3rds of the list. VERY little is required. Modern hunters go all gear-crazy, when really, there isn't very much necessary. Modern hunters wear scentlok gear under their matched 3D camo patterns, spray attractive scents everywhere, and eliminate all kinds of other variables. I tend to see those things as crutches, or a means for elevating your skills above what they actually are. Now, I really don't have a harsh grudge against those who use such methods; they're a part of the evolution of sportsmen. But I still think that if huntsmen were good enough at tracking, stalking, and shooting six hundred years ago in linens with longbows to put food on the table, we, six hundred years later, should be plenty good enough to do likewise. It takes practice and patience, and I'm far from a master of the art, but it's well worth the reward of knowing you did it the old way; the hard way. The real way, I suppose.

[Eledhwen]

I recently joined St. Huberts Rangers; a medieval hunting reenactment outfit.

All this season I have been hunting in period attire with period gear.

I am currently using a custom made traditional longbow pulling 75 pounds at full draw, self-nock hand fletched broadheads on 11/32 ash shafts, an arrow bag I made from leather patterned on a period linen sort, simple toggle shoes, hose, under gown, gown, hooded mantle, knife, pouch, and a shoulder bag..rather like a haversack.

Greg is correct; you do not need much to do this.

Prior to this I have always used my compound bow. I never use scents or lures. I stalk or still hunt, never stand hunt.

I'm learning a very great deal about medieval hunting, both from the books I nabbed and from the actual practice.

Wild turkeys skunked me. I still have a shot at quail or pheasant..I think. I'll have to double check.

I'm loving it.

Eledhwen

[Willrett]

If you are worried about smell all you have to do is build a smoky fire (outside) and hang your clothes over it for about a half hour or so and this should last a month or so. I know alot of people who use this method only.

I did not get to hunt this year I had no time to practice because of the wedding. But I will be hunting next year all in cotton and wool no modern camo. I plan on having plenty of arrows ready to go by then. wood with turkey feathers.

[Greg]

...self-nock hand fletched broadheads on 11/32 ash shafts...

...Wild turkeys skunked me. I still have a shot at quail or pheasant..I think. I'll have to double check...

What broadheads are you using? I've been working down the edges of a set of 3rivers Hunting Trade points that are flying rather nicely. (http://www.3riversarchery.com/Primitive ... oduct.html)

Wild turkey with a traditional bow is difficult...made even more so by primitive gear, since turkeys see in color, which is why you never seen modern turkey hunters wearing blaze/safety orange. Even a mildly reflective shotgun barrel can cause them to panic. Add to that the large bulk of feathers and TINY hidden effective target area, and you've got one heck of a shot to deal with. If they see you raising your bow to draw, they'll panic, too, so the best option is to wait until they face away to draw, or wait until there's a tree between the two of you to draw.

Of course, you could then wind up with your target gobbler STOPPING behind said tree, leaving you at or near full draw holding 45-75 lbs of raw power for half a minute waiting for it to reappear.

Yeah. Turkeys are a royal pain. That's why we fletch with turkey feathers. So they have to reap what they sow.

[Eledhwen]

I use modern broadheads. Law says I have to so I do that. I use Eclipse heads..just the standard two edges. They look traditional from any distance.

I have hunted turkeys a long time; they are smart birds. Not only do they see in color but they have eyesight second to none. Usually by the time you see them the have seen you long since.

Taking them in 'primitive' gear is a huge challenge, no mistake. The head/neck/spine target zone is a pain and practice is essential to hit that sort of target. We get turkey season twice a year here; Spring, when you can only take toms, and fall when toms and hens are available. Lots and lots of the birds around here.

Turkey feathers make good fletching, and indeed it is good to give them a bit of their own medicine. Goose feathers too.

Eledhwen

[BrianBlass]

I'm learning a very great deal about medieval hunting, both from the books I nabbed and from the actual practice.

I'd love some titles of the books that you reference. I imagine they would be a good tool at this point for me.

[Eledhwen]

Medieval Hunting by Richard Almond

The Master of Game by Edward of Norwich (this is a translation from a period treatise)

The Art of Medieval Hunting, The Hound and the Hawk by John Cummins.

Of these, Almond's book 'Medieval Hunting' is the most recent and holds a wealth of information on this far too overlooked topic. Even now good works are scarce and many are simply reexaminations of previous texts. These three are highly recommended by St. Huberts Rangers and I find them worthy indeed.

To go along with those these modern books on traditional archery:

Instinctive Archery Insights - Revised Edition by Jay Kidwell

Beginners Guide to Traditional Archery by Sorrels. Yes, it says beginners...do not look askance, it is worth a great deal even to old hands.

The Traditional Bowyers Bible all four volumes, if you have any desire to craft our own bow, arrows, and strings. It seems a natural extension. It was for me anyway. I'm building six broadheads today in fact and I have a good longbow under construction. We'll see how good it is when I am done. Caution! This stuff makes you haunt places looking for spoke shaved, draw knives, rough scrapers and all that sort of thing.

One thing it has done is make me question the assertion of scholars that the arrow bag was for transportation. Try hunting with broadheads stuck in the belt...and no hunter sticks those in the ground. The bag wins for hunting over the quiver hands down from my experience. I simply made one from leather so I could oil it and make it tougher and less likely to snag on things. I'll be getting some pics of arrows and bag up here before long.

Hope that helps.

Eledhwen

[BrianBlass]

Tons, thank you!

[kaelln]

One thing it has done is make me question the assertion of scholars that the arrow bag was for transportation. Try hunting with broadheads stuck in the belt...and no hunter sticks those in the ground. The bag wins for hunting over the quiver hands down from my experience. I simply made one from leather so I could oil it and make it tougher and less likely to snag on things. I'll be getting some pics of arrows and bag up here before long.

Eledhwen, could you go over the difference between an "arrow bag" and a quiver? How do they differ, and why is an arrow bag better? To me, a quiver is just a thing you stick arrows in!

[Eledhwen]

The arrow bag is generally thought to have been a method of carrying numbers of arrows easily...a transport system. It is a bag made of linen..at least those found on the Mary Rose were of linen if memory serves...that is funnel shaped..that is, wide at one end, narrow at the other. Both ends close with a drawstring.

A leather disc went into the larger end; it was perforated with anything from a dozen on up holes just large enough to accept the nock end of an arrow. The holes were spaced in such a way that the flights of the arrows did not grind against one another.

The nocks of the arrows were put in the holes, the points of the arrows drawn together and a leather pouch put over them and drawn snugly. The entire assembly would be slid into the bag from the wide end (obviously). The narrow end would be closed before loading..the wide end was then drawn closed over the disc and the drawstring tied. The arrows are completely contained within the bag where they cannot be snagged or lost.

That is where scholarship stops. Transport system.

But...if you open the narrow end and roll it back, remove the pouch from the arrow points, you can draw an arrow from the bag with a slight tug. The arrows do not stick up above your shoulder. They do not rattle. The points are right down near your hip/waist so require minimal movement to draw and nock.

Most scholars say the arrows were transported, then stuck in the belt or in the ground. No hunter sticks razor sharp points in the ground. Bodkins perhaps, or field points, but not broadheads. Razor sharp broadheads would cut you up good..and your clothing, if tucked through the belt. Again, the belt method works with field points and bodkins.

Yet there are wood cuttings and illustrations of these bags, opened at both ends, being used in hunting and fighting. Not as just transport.

The quiver is a tube. Arrows are stuck into it. If they are broadheads they need protection from the others or they will dull down in minutes rubbing around on one another. Foam in the bottom these days. You could suggest wool...but a broadhead would snag that being drawn unless it were leaf shaped. Swallowtails would certainly bind and drag. Quivers hang from the belt...good for target shooting..but not hunting or running unless you tie them to your leg. Or they ride the shoulders..where the flights jut up over the shoulder. Horse bow quivers often strap to the bow case itself or hang from the belt or saddle...different set of needs here.

From my experience...and my experience only...the arrow bag has proven to be less troublesome in brush, far more quiet when moving about, a great deal more convenient and economical in movement, and cheap and easily made. For broadheads I made little sheaths for each arrow...they have a cord attached which attaches in turn to a ring sewin into the narrow end of the bag. I open the narrow end...flip off a sheath, draw the arrow, nock and off we go. With little movement. The cords keep the arrow sheaths both in place and keep them from getting lost when removed.

I have a lovely back quiver. I have adored it for many years. I now prefer the arrow bag. Definitely for hunting and to be honest, it is not at all bad for targets either. Mine carries a dozen arrows although I hunt only with six. I have a two dozen model in the planning stages. My sense of the matter is that the bigger the bag the less useful it is for actual work; the quiver comes into its own with larger numbers of arrows. The bag is still easier transportation though. Nothing falls out. Nothing snags.

I am currently after making a better bag in leather (the other one is made from junk bits)...I can oil that and it will shed water a bit better...and since I make and bind my own arrows, keeping the dry makes me happy.

If that hasn't completely addled your mind, I hope it has been somewhat helpful.

Eledhwen

[kaelln]

Thanks, Eledhwen. That makes it a lot clearer!

[Cleddyf]

i hunt conventionally (which in nz means with a gun and when hunting deer,goats,rabbits,hare,quail,pheasant ect. walking around loads, when hunting ducks,black swan or geese either walking or sitting in a maimai) but i know of some people who hunt from horse back, they train the horses not to mind the noise and apparently it works really well,the deer arn't scared of horses and so its a lot easier to find them and you can cover a lot more ground,as far as scent goes,i imagine the smell of the horse more then covers up the smell of the people

[Eledhwen]

Horse hunting is not allowed in my state except in Fox Hunting club preserves.

I stopped using a gun a long while ago. Until recently I used a compound bow. Since discovering St. Huberts Rangers and doing Ranger excursions, I hunt entirely in Medieval Ranger kit and clothing.

Now there is a challenge. Quite enjoyable. I've seen a lot of game so far, but I have yet to get into good enough position to take a shot. I never shoot unless I am pretty certain I can make the hit; it does not always work out that way but I prefer to try and avoid wounding and having to track an animal in pain. Better the clean kill and that means close range. I prefer 25 yards maximum, 20 is the standard I try to achieve. 10 is even better but I do not often manage that distance.

Lots of fun. Highly illuminating. Very relaxing.

Eledhwen

[Eledhwen]

One further point on the arrow bags:

I have come across some indications that archers sometimes carried two or three of them at once. A dozen each would give each man 24 - 36 arrows. I suspect you could carry a fourth if you needed to..that would be 48 arrows. Lots of ammo. I am not sure why one would do this...I will do some experiments and see how clumsy it is.

Eledhwen