Bows.

[Jonathan B.]

R.D.Metcalf

I hope you don't think I am/was trying to pick a fight as that is the last thing I'd want to do here. From my own point of view I played with the typical fiberglass bows when I was younger. Then when I first started developing a persona for Ren-fest I bought a low poundage board bow, shot it for a year or so and then lucked into finding a #60 Siege Bow made by Steve Ralphs, for a very good price.

Being of Scottish decent, 6'2", #285, and working as a Driller's Helper (read, job with a lot of heavy lifting) I thought it would be no big deal, I was wrong. I finally got to the point that I could comfortably and accurately use it but it took a lot more work than it would have if I had slowly built up to that draw weight.

Also I've found out that like most skills, it is a perishable thing and if I don't practice often I'm right back where i started.Rudderbows make very serviceable bows but I have had bad luck with their cedar arrows.

[Mirimaran]

Sometimes I wonder if finding a bow is something like finding a wand in the Harry Potter movies. Maybe the bow picks you. I shot fiberglass and self bows when I was younger and picked up a longbow from woodbows.com a couple of years back from a friend who needed money after a divorce. Although a nice bow, it's just not for me. I do better with the smaller red oak linen backed bow I have discussed in another thread. So, sometimes, why generally some folks might start in a graded way with archery, some others might just do what comes naturally. Reminds me also of a girlfriend I had in Germany. We went skiing in Garmisch; the first time for the both of us. I was on the bunny slope the whole weekend, she was skiing the whole course. So, go figure. As for hunting, I do better with the bow in the car when I hit the deer. *S* To be honest, the deer hit us

[Greg]

Ken's got a good point here. All of my current bows stack like no other. My old 30# fiberglass bow stacks the least. The next one up, my old 48" osage self-bow at 45# stacks so bad that there's almost no resistance for the first 6" of draw, and it hits 45# at 26" so hard that there is ZERO give. A terrible shooter by all trad shooter's standards. For some strange reason, I didn't do half bad with it.

My current fiberglass-backed yew recurve is a dream compared to the other two. That being said, it also stacks at the end...quite badly, I might add. It hits a wall with very little give, and actually gains about 5# over the course of an inch at full draw, putting the labeled 55# bow on the edge of 60#. Not a good thing, especially for shooting form.

Now take my brother-in-law's mass-produced glass 1958 Ben Pearson "Javelina" recurve, a 40#er. A HUGE bow compared to ALL of mine, which are 48"ers. His is ~66-68" (I don't remember the exact AMO length) and has the smoothest draw...it's lovely. All that weight should absorb tons of shock, making the release smoother and eliminating excess bow movement as the arrow travels across the shelf. Should be respectably accurate shot by any reasonably seasoned shooter.

I can't shoot it worth a polished turd. I'm terrible with it. I've spent a substantial amount of time trying to dial in with it, just to see how I can do. Nada. I put it down, pick up my ultralight 48" glass stack-machine and put three inside a peanut butter jar lid at 20 yards, at a fairly fast rate-of-fire, no less.

This is not me bragging. I'm illustrating Ken's point from another perspective. Ken claims that he can't hit the broad side of a barn with a bow, saying that it just isn't something that comes naturally to him. Archery IS something that has always been more or less natural for me, yet I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a bow that draws and shoots anything close to what is commonly desirable. I coach people on the proper bows to purchase to avoid the exact qualities that *I* look for in bows. Okay, that's a lie. I don't LOOK for bows that stack. I just own three bows, and all of them HAPPEN to stack. Fact is, it works for me. Something about that terrible draw stroke fits with my form, stance, and aiming techniques.

Yes, finding a bow should start with researching what works for the general populous. But every once in awhile, you realize that YOU, not the bow, are the lemon amongst the cookies, and that you shoot great with all the crappy bows. That's fine by me. People have laughed at my old osage stick bow with a terrible set, unevenly tillered limbs, a dirty linen grip wrap, and a knot in the upper limb, and I laugh with them. "Yep. She's my piece of crap." Then I shoot, and she doesn't do half bad. She's not my Ranger recurve, for sure...she's no nail driver, for sure...she's DEFINITELY not the zinger of a Boo-backed Ipe Ranger Longbow that I've nearly finished...

But you know what? She's mine, and I know her quirks. She didn't speak to anybody in the proverbial "magic wand" shop but me. I think I'll keep her around.

Alright, end of that rant; ignore everything just posted.
AVOID BOWS THAT STACK AT ALL COSTS! THIS DOES NOT MAKE ME SPECIAL! IT MEANS I HAVE A PROBLEM! NOT A DESIRABLE THING! *chuckles*

Ken, I like that. "Maybe bows choose you." We all have that one piece of kit that we feel a connection to. I know for a fact that for R.D. it is his sword. He lives by that thing. I feel a good deal of a greater connection to my sword than I used to, but I'll tell you what, it's nothing like how comfortable I feel with a bow in my hands. No matter what bow I'm carrying, I think there just might be a little part of me in there. Heaven knows what it'll feel like when I'm shooting one I've made myself again... *sigh*

[Cimrandir]

Wow guys, I'm sorry if I started anything. I guess this is where I need to explain my experience with bows.. I know a reasonable amount but obviously not enough. I have always enjoyed archery but I have rarely gotten a chance to practice. I had earned the archery merit badge in Boy Scouts and that's where I base most of my knowledge. Obviously, that's not enough. You conversation has left me in the dust. I'll have to do some major studying before I buy a bow.

Anyway, I've always shot a smaller draw weight bow. I figured that, since I think I'm pretty strong (though not nearly strong enough to pull a #75) I could start out with a #50. However, since ya'll say that, not properly trained, it can lead to bad habits, I guess I'll start out with a #35.

My primary desire to get a larger bow is that I didn't want to spend tons of money on buying lots of bows. I never remembered that I could sell my bows on here. So now that problem is solved. I guess that I will buy a lower draw weight bow and work my way up. I think that I will concentrate on target practice instead of hunting in these early stages.

Which leads me back to my original question. Which Rudderbow has the best bang for your buck?

Thanks,
TexasRanger36

P.S. Again I'm very sorry if I started a dispute. Please forgive me, I'm still learning.

[Peter Remling]

TR38 you didn't start anything except an open conversation, we've had them before and we'll have them again. I hardly think anyone took any offense to the things said. It was all opinion and we do value opinions here. They lead to individual testing and discovery.

[R.D.Metcalf]

Dampiel,
We are not always goin to agree and thats as it should be, but it doesnt mean we're enemies. So no I didnt see anyone trying to pick a fight, and neither was I, just trying to post from a different perspective.

As I said before the whys are more interesting to me than the why nots, I'm Anglo- Danish by descent, we're generally game for a challenge...Theres nothing I fear more than boredom

Greg, you pegged me right I love a good blade but my real sword is only now beginning to take shape, the one I've planned for years, faced literally hundreds of set backs and a *very* steep learning curve.....shes the one

Ken, you are very right, I believe the weapon does choose us.

[Eric C]

Dampiel we're all thicker skinned than that around here. I think this is a good conversation and I will find myself scanning it over and over again as I work with a forumite here on my "ideal" bow. That is if I start making a particular item that I can trade with him.

[Willrett]

Im hurt and I cried


I love my Ben Pearson bow its from the 50s/60 (way older then me ) its a 50# that has lost alittle bit and is not about 45ish and its the first bow I ever shot other than the 20# one day i gym in middle school. When I started shooting it I had bad form and could not pull where I wanted it which was the wrong anchor point anyway. But anytime I ever pull a bow I always stretch and go slow, if you go slow your body will tell you to stop before you hurt yourself to bad.

[Eledhwen]

My Warbow was custom made for me from ash. It has horn nocks, is a D section traditional, and the bowyer was a lad name of Anghus from Ansteorra. Texas in the mundane world. I met him at Pennsic 22, made the order complete with all measurements and whatnot..and a year later I received it. It is made for my height and draw length.

Not a name bow or commercially produced I am afraid. But a very nice bow that I have had for some 16 years now.

Eledhwen

[Jon]

I'm going to be moving up from a 28lb bow to a 40 lb bow. Would you say that was too much? I know i won't be able to fully draw it at first, maybe only 2/3 of the way.

[Eledhwen]

Just draw it as far as you can and maintain good form. Your muscles will adapt to it before too long and you will be able to draw it further.

Eledhwen

[Willrett]

That should be a good jump, just be sure to take it SLOW. Don't forget to stretch. Have fun cant wait for pics.

[Cimrandir]

I have another question for you guys. What kind of wood is best? It seems we have multiple choices. Ash, hickory, bamboo, red oak... Plus you have all the different backings. What is best combination for a beginner's bow that he uses for target practice?

[Jonathan B.]

Typically Yew is considered the best wood for Longbows, But Ash, Osage, and Hickory are very good choices. I personally don't like Red Oak.

[Greg]

The problem with yew is that is succumbs to the forces of compression over time, especially when used in a standard d-shape english longbow design, where the forces being placed on the belly (side facing you) of the bow are extraordinary. To add onto that...yew is generally expensive beyond belief when you can get similar results with other, cheaper woods.

There isn't a "best" combination, persay. Hickory is nice and solid, as is Ash. Bamboo isn't typically found on its own, as it is more commonly used as a backing material on Osage or Ipe (Eee-pay, which is a form of Brazilian Walnut), though Solid Bamboo bows DO exist. What you really want is something that isn't TOO heavy (ie. not a big fiberglassed wood recurve) to keep your bow arm from tireing while shooting, which would encourage bad form. Bamboo-backed-Ipe is REALLY hard to go wrong with, as is Boo-backed-Osage.

Ultimately, a bow's performance will be based almost entirely on how the bowyer made it. Smoothness of the draw, arrow speed, and hand shock are all factors of where (if any) the reflex/recurve/etc. exists along the limb, as well as how evenly tillered (tapered, shaped, etc.) the limbs are during the process. Wood quality is also important, as the straighter the grain, the more in-line the overall energy stored in the bow will be released, resulting in straight or off-kilter shots.

In short...go to tradgang.com and search the forums for "beginner bow". There'll be HUNDREDS of threads with this very same question on it that will have thousands of suggestions of relatively cheap, good solid starter bows. Some homemade, some commercially manufactured.

My opinion, personally, would be to get a Martin "Stick" Longbow as a starter since they're light, durable, no-nonsense longbows with a sickeningly smooth draw, and can be found used fairly readily. That being said, it's gonna cost you more than 20-30 bucks, but if you're willing to shell out a bit of dough, it'll last you a lifetime (or until you want a new bow at a higher poundage, etc.)