Fire Arrows
Fire Arrows
I don't think Rangers would use them except in dire need because of the effects on the environment.
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Re: Fire Arrows
Good point. A quick glance at the history suggests that they were mostly useful in setting fire to thatched peasant villages.
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Re: Fire Arrows
Yes, but remember all the movies have the stables and workshops and such along the inside of the wall and ALL are thatched so they can be set on fire or break the hero's fall?
But then, somehow, that moat always manages to vanish between the time the army arrives and the time the army attacks.
I am beginning to worry that these medieval action films may not be fully historically accurate .
But then, somehow, that moat always manages to vanish between the time the army arrives and the time the army attacks.
I am beginning to worry that these medieval action films may not be fully historically accurate .
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Re: Fire Arrows
There are legitimate reasons for all of these things:RikJohnson39 wrote:Yes, but remember all the movies have the stables and workshops and such along the inside of the wall and ALL are thatched so they can be set on fire or break the hero's fall?
But then, somehow, that moat always manages to vanish between the time the army arrives and the time the army attacks.
I am beginning to worry that these medieval action films may not be fully historically accurate .
The stables and work areas are covered in straw as a food source for the mounts stabled there
By the time you walk all the way to your next castle storming you're tired and thirsty. Too tired to walk to the river so you cut reeds and drink from the moat. Hundreds of men drinking from the moat and it goes dry.
Never criticize Hollywood, everything is well researched and 100% accurate.
Now can someone tell me how to get a tongue out of a cheek.
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Re: Fire Arrows
I like movies too.
But then there is history.
Julius Caesar, Alexandrian Wars: "For Alexandria is in a manner secure from fire, because the houses are all built without joists or wood, and are all vaulted, and roofed with tile or pavement."
The Gallic Wars: "On the seventh day of the attack, a very high wind having sprung up, they began to discharge by their slings hot balls made of burned or hardened clay, and heated javelins, upon the huts, which, after the Gallic custom, were thatched with straw. These quickly took fire, and by the violence of the wind, scattered their flames in every part of the camp."
Plutarch, Life of Sulla: "But by this time Sulla was at hand, and seeing what was going on, shouted orders to set fire to the houses, and seizing a blazing torch, led the way himself, and ordered his archers to use their fire-bolts and shoot them up at the roofs."
But then there is history.
Julius Caesar, Alexandrian Wars: "For Alexandria is in a manner secure from fire, because the houses are all built without joists or wood, and are all vaulted, and roofed with tile or pavement."
The Gallic Wars: "On the seventh day of the attack, a very high wind having sprung up, they began to discharge by their slings hot balls made of burned or hardened clay, and heated javelins, upon the huts, which, after the Gallic custom, were thatched with straw. These quickly took fire, and by the violence of the wind, scattered their flames in every part of the camp."
Plutarch, Life of Sulla: "But by this time Sulla was at hand, and seeing what was going on, shouted orders to set fire to the houses, and seizing a blazing torch, led the way himself, and ordered his archers to use their fire-bolts and shoot them up at the roofs."
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Re: Fire Arrows
Speaking of thatching, there's a nice little write up of it in John Seymour's "The Countryside Explained" :
https://books.google.com/books/about/Th ... PGAAAACAAJ
http://www.amazon.com/COUNTRYSIDE-EXPLA ... 0140049460
It's a little denser than his other works, but if you want a good "how Hobbiton really worked" it's a great introduction to the technology and practice of the English countryside Tolkien loved so much.
For instance, once the thatching wore out (assuming no nasty orcses fired it) - it went to the animals for bedding. Once THEY were done with it, it made fantastic compost.
Farmers have been recycling since before recycling was cool.
:hipster glasses:
edit - even amongst the elf-friends, I don't think Rangers have a modern conception of enviromentalism. That's borne I think more of high population and dwindling natural resources, whereas Eriador of the late Third Age is exactly the opposite: a depopulated overgrown ruin. That said, good stewardship is a a deep virtue for those that must prepare for hard times, so I doubt they'd employ fire needlessly or recklessly.
https://books.google.com/books/about/Th ... PGAAAACAAJ
http://www.amazon.com/COUNTRYSIDE-EXPLA ... 0140049460
It's a little denser than his other works, but if you want a good "how Hobbiton really worked" it's a great introduction to the technology and practice of the English countryside Tolkien loved so much.
For instance, once the thatching wore out (assuming no nasty orcses fired it) - it went to the animals for bedding. Once THEY were done with it, it made fantastic compost.
Farmers have been recycling since before recycling was cool.
:hipster glasses:
edit - even amongst the elf-friends, I don't think Rangers have a modern conception of enviromentalism. That's borne I think more of high population and dwindling natural resources, whereas Eriador of the late Third Age is exactly the opposite: a depopulated overgrown ruin. That said, good stewardship is a a deep virtue for those that must prepare for hard times, so I doubt they'd employ fire needlessly or recklessly.
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Re: Fire Arrows
Lindy Beige is kinda manic, but he's fun, and he makes a few good points.
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Re: Fire Arrows
Hunh... I'm quite fond of Lloyd as well, but this one feels a little too... debunky just-so story to me. Extant original heads exist, yes? And there are recorded instances of their use, yes?
I can't think but that the people whose lives depended on the efficacy of their arms knew what they were doing.
.. which is not to say they must have been used like in the movies.
edit - rather confused why Lloyd would spend so much time arguing "but they go out" when the first video (posted to youTube well before Lindy's video) - show them working just fine.
(If a hundred of those things landed in a nice dry hayfield instead of a nicely manicured green lawn, things would have gone crazy right quick!)
I can't think but that the people whose lives depended on the efficacy of their arms knew what they were doing.
.. which is not to say they must have been used like in the movies.
edit - rather confused why Lloyd would spend so much time arguing "but they go out" when the first video (posted to youTube well before Lindy's video) - show them working just fine.
(If a hundred of those things landed in a nice dry hayfield instead of a nicely manicured green lawn, things would have gone crazy right quick!)
Persona: Aerlinneth, Dúnedain of Amon Lendel c. TA 3010.
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Re: Fire Arrows
Yeah, he's being "debunky" (liking your new word) in that he's a little bit in love with his chance to correct misperceptions, rather than sticking to the history (which is what he winds up doing at the end).
I think the "take-home" is that fire arrows (or "flaming arrows") were used indeed, and people figured out ways to make them work, and that they were used when there were flammable targets, such as thatched roofs. And Hollywood loves them because they are visually cool.
I think the "take-home" is that fire arrows (or "flaming arrows") were used indeed, and people figured out ways to make them work, and that they were used when there were flammable targets, such as thatched roofs. And Hollywood loves them because they are visually cool.
There are no safe paths in this part of the world. Remember you are over the Edge of the Wild now, and in for all sorts of fun wherever you go.