Elleth wrote: ...on the middle one reads more forodrim to me than dunedain, though...
Forodrim? As in Lossoth? I guess I had always imagined them as more Eskimoan than Norse.
Elleth wrote: ...on the middle one reads more forodrim to me than dunedain, though...
I hadn't considered that angle before. My personal interpretation was always more of a mythic-historic Inuit (likely a result of reading Crow and Weasel many many times as a youngling, but also the reference to snow-housing and utilization of bone), with perhaps a bit of Saami thrown in for Euro flavour.Elleth wrote:I'd pictured them as rather bronze age ish proto-norse, based I confess mostly on location. Rereading a bit, Im coming to your view.
Reading the 'Eriol or Aeflwine' in book 2 of the Lost Tales. And from it I can say that the Professor had historic scandinavians in mind when he imagined the Forodwaith.Udwin wrote:I hadn't considered that angle before. My personal interpretation was always more of a mythic-historic Inuit (likely a result of reading Crow and Weasel many many times as a youngling, but also the reference to snow-housing and utilization of bone), with perhaps a bit of Saami thrown in for Euro flavour.Elleth wrote:I'd pictured them as rather bronze age ish proto-norse, based I confess mostly on location. Rereading a bit, Im coming to your view.
LOTRO's interp. is all over the place, sort of mammoth-hunting yurt-dwelling whatsits.
I looked it up, and it has them sailing in a 'well-built ship of cunning lines', and are said to have a 'great heart for adventures of the sea'). JRRT (or Christopher?) states "The Forodwaith are of course Viking invaders from Norway or Denmark", and later "The only clue in AElfwine of England to the period of AElfwine's life is the invasion of the Forodwaith (Vikings); the mighty king of the Franks may therefore be Charlemagne..."caedmon wrote:Reading the 'Eriol or Aeflwine' in book 2 of the Lost Tales. And from it I can say that the Professor had historic scandinavians in mind when he imagined the Forodwaith.
It is an unfinished account of a saxon who goes to Tol Eressëa, and is from a period before LOTR and the SIlmarriliion had been merged into a cohesive whole. In it, he is made a slave by the Forodwaithe, who in this story are Vikings.
Agreed. However all we have for the Lossoth/Forodwaith in the the unified Legendarium is a couple lines. Which, to me, means that he hadn't fleshed them out particularly well, and it's a perfect time to look for clues in related works. The two related works that touch on them are Eriol/Aelfwine stories with Vikings, and Fr. Christmas with the SnowMen. Neither of which indicate any overt proto-Eskimoan features. Other than northern living.Udwin wrote:HOWEVER, as you say, the Book of Lost Tales material is part of the earlier (and eventually abandoned) 'Mythology for England' concept. While many of the names and rough ideas may be shared, these should not be considered a part of the unified Middle-earth Legendarium
Agreed. However all we have for the Lossoth/Forodwaith in the the unified Legendarium is a couple lines. Which, to me, means that he hadn't fleshed them out particularly well, and it's a perfect time to look for clues in related works. The two related works that touch on them are Eriol/Aelfwine stories with Vikings, and Fr. Christmas with the SnowMen. Neither of which indicate any overt proto-Eskimoan features. Other than northern living.Udwin wrote:HOWEVER, as you say, the Book of Lost Tales material is part of the earlier (and eventually abandoned) 'Mythology for England' concept. While many of the names and rough ideas may be shared, these should not be considered a part of the unified Middle-earth Legendarium
Well, keep in mind, that whatever ideas that Tolkien had, they were based on what he knew back then.Udwin wrote:True.
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-they 'run on the ice with bones on their feet'. I had always heard vikings invented ice skates, but apparentlyrecent research has shown that the first skates come from Finland, ~1000BCE!
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