Matches for fire starting in Middle Earth?

[Kortoso]

I spy a mention of matches in the Wiki:
http://ranger.budgetauthenticity.org/in ... e_starting

I'm curious where Tolkien has his characters use matches. The reason I am asking is that the original historical "Match" was something along the lines described here:
http://www.oldandinteresting.com/sulphur-matches.aspx
"Brimstone matches were thin pieces of wood dipped at each end in sulphur, also called brimstone. For anyone using a tinderbox to strike a light they were a great help, even though they seem very inferior to us now in the age of friction and safety matches."

But in the Wiki, we see matches or "lucifers" described in this manner:
"The lucifer is struck against a hard item, friction heat and a spark raises the temperature and the chemical on the tip ignites which in turn ignites the wood stick. Matches are specifically mentioned by Tolkien."

What do you think?

[Greg]

It's in the hobbit. Both Hobbits and Dwarves are quoted as carrying or using them, I believe.

[Udwin]

Matches are known in association with Hobbits, yes, but Tolkien writes that “(Dwarves have never taken to matches even yet.)” (TH Ch 6, p.111).
(From this line we might infer that dwarves became familiar with matches through their business with hobbits, but nonetheless refrained from adopting them.)

There's also this description after Bilbo gets lost in the goblin-tunnels before meeting Gollum, which specifies that his matches (if he had any) would have been strikeable, aka 'lucifers' or 'vesta' matches (so called because they were kept in one's vest pockets):

“...Then [Bilbo] felt for matches and he could not find any at all, and that shattered his hopes completely. Just as well for him, as he agreed when he came to his senses. Goodness knows what the striking of matches and the smell of tobacco would have brought on him out of dark holes in that horrible place...” (TH Ch5, p.69).

According to the all-knowing Wiki, the earliest successful friction matches were invented in the 1820s and '30s, with developments and refinements continuing throughout the 19th century. Depending on your view of hobbit culture--which could range anywhere from perhaps 1750s to say, 1890s--such matches would fit right in.

[Kortoso]

Thanks, I was wondering about this.
Well, the Professor included tobacco, so I guess we can't expect medieval historical accuracy.

[Eledhwen]

There is no one period to look to; the Master took from a fairly wide range of time to create his epic. We think of these thing as anachronisms, but within the context of the story, they are not.

This is why I do not worry so much about medieval period accuracy; there are a goodly number of things from other cultures and times mixed in. I reenact the books, as best I can, leaving my historical accuracy of medieval and colonial stuff to those particular pursuits.

Matches are shiny. So was the mantlepiece clock.

I just carry a small box of miniature kitchen matches...good enough.

Eledhwen

[Manveruon]

Yeah, as much as I love the romantic idea of using flint and steel to strike a fire, after this weekend's excursion, I am perfectly happy carrying matches with my ranger kit and explaining them away as an item traded with the Hobbits of the Marches. Even with friction matches, it can be hard enough to start a fire on damp tinder and wood, let alone with more primitive methods (though I suspect I would personally benefit greatly from simply practicing a bit more with my striker, haha).

[Mirimaran]

One would think that matches would be a Dwarvish idea. Do you think that since Hobbits began pipe smoking, that necessity was the mother of invention?

Ken

[Greg]

...or did Gandalf's fireworks, which are only heard of being used in the Shire, necessitate their invention, and then simply ebb and flow into Hobbit culture? Or, for that matter, were they even a staple for hobbits, or were they simply in Bilbo's pockets because of his family's long association with Gandalf?

I find it hard to imagine Hobbits messing around with chemicals long enough to come up with something like this, but I'm not exactly a chemist, either.

[Straelbora]

...or did Gandalf's fireworks, which are only heard of being used in the Shire, necessitate their invention, and then simply ebb and flow into Hobbit culture? Or, for that matter, were they even a staple for hobbits, or were they simply in Bilbo's pockets because of his family's long association with Gandalf?

I find it hard to imagine Hobbits messing around with chemicals long enough to come up with something like this, but I'm not exactly a chemist, either.

It's believed that gunpowder was invented in China in a kichen environment. Hobbits experimenting in the kitchen sounds plausible (although, truthfully, a wizard messing around with stuff seems more plausible for Middle-earth.

[Manveruon]

I absolutely love this speculation. This is one of those times I'm just dying to know what the Professor would have said about it himself.